Honesty
Posted 05-29-2009 at 06:10 PM by The_Jazz
There is a member who has claimed over the years:
That he's been shot
That he's been dead
That he's ran a 4 minute mile - which is quite an elite club (less than 200 Americans, and he's most definitely not on that list)
He's a father - only to later admit that he's not
He was born without an aorta
He ended gang activity at the strip mall with Quiznos™
He was plagiarized - actually he was caught blatantly plagarizing someone else with confirmation from that author.
He's an author - unpublished of course, which makes me one
He was a rape crisis hotline counselor
He's waterboarded somewhere between 3 and 1 person
I can point anyone who's interested to all of these claims with my evidence to refute them. Of the 10 claims above, I have irrefutable evidence that 4 of these, without a doubt, 100% false. YOU need to make up your own mind about the others.
This board has been slowly ebbing away, inch by inch for years. Part of that is because we've become accustom to each other - which is great most of the time - but at the same time we've built up immunity to the stench of each other's bullshit. It's time to clear the air.
If you're an oldtimer who doesn't post much any more because you got tired of getting yelled at because your honesty might hurt someone's feelings, do me a favor and give it another go. If you're politely honest about something, you're my new hero. If you can't do that, well, you're just as full of shit as I am.
That he's been shot
That he's been dead
That he's ran a 4 minute mile - which is quite an elite club (less than 200 Americans, and he's most definitely not on that list)
He's a father - only to later admit that he's not
He was born without an aorta
He ended gang activity at the strip mall with Quiznos™
He was plagiarized - actually he was caught blatantly plagarizing someone else with confirmation from that author.
He's an author - unpublished of course, which makes me one
He was a rape crisis hotline counselor
He's waterboarded somewhere between 3 and 1 person
I can point anyone who's interested to all of these claims with my evidence to refute them. Of the 10 claims above, I have irrefutable evidence that 4 of these, without a doubt, 100% false. YOU need to make up your own mind about the others.
This board has been slowly ebbing away, inch by inch for years. Part of that is because we've become accustom to each other - which is great most of the time - but at the same time we've built up immunity to the stench of each other's bullshit. It's time to clear the air.
If you're an oldtimer who doesn't post much any more because you got tired of getting yelled at because your honesty might hurt someone's feelings, do me a favor and give it another go. If you're politely honest about something, you're my new hero. If you can't do that, well, you're just as full of shit as I am.
Total Comments 24
Comments
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I've never felt the need to be dishonest here. I also don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether others are honest.
Rule of message boards: take everything someone claims with a grain of salt. If there's no independent, verifiable evidence, it didn't happen.
I'm not going to waste a lot of energy getting upset about people who lie or are dishonest. I don't have a lot of respect for people who do such things, but at the end of the day it doesn't really affect me. So long as I can continue to have the types of discussions that I enjoy I don't really care if someone claims he lives on Jupiter and eats plutonium for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Posting about how your herbal remedy will cure cancer is harmful and wrong, and I'll call bullshit on that. Posting about personal achievements is preening. Whether the claims are true or not isn't particularly relevant, and it's not worth my time to try to debunk such things.Posted 05-29-2009 at 06:37 PM by Martian
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Jazz, I HAVE in fact waterboarded 3 people and I did call the rape crisis hotline. Didn't you see the post twisted made in the bashing thread?
Honestly man, why would anyone lie? This is an ANONYMOUS board. Makes no sense really.Posted 05-29-2009 at 07:03 PM by Xerxys
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You're in the majority. Most of us don't. I didn't until it started to get in the way and become it's own separate problem. The problem is that folks have left because they feel unable to call a spade a spade. That's over, as of now.Quote:Originally Posted by MartianI've never felt the need to be dishonest here. I also don't spend a lot of time worrying about whether others are honest.
Exactly.Quote:Originally Posted by XerxysMakes no sense really.Posted 05-29-2009 at 07:39 PM by The_Jazz
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Wait, so I can really start calling spades spades again? I mean really? So I can say who did all that but that they are full of shit and they IMO just have some sort of fascination with creating this persona and ego on this board and I think its a poison and always has been? I can say that I don't fall for their petty little games? That they are pathetic?
I mean really really? Or am I still only able to call bullshit on their posts?Posted 05-29-2009 at 07:54 PM by guccilvr
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LOVE it!Quote:If you're politely honest about something, you're my new hero.
Posted 05-29-2009 at 07:57 PM by Taja
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Gucci, you know the answer to that. Personal attacks are always out of bounds. They never were ok anywhere on the board (ok, maybe Nonsense).
But yeah, if you think it's a lie, challenge it.Posted 05-29-2009 at 09:03 PM by The_Jazz
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Oh, good. I was about to offer you some Jimmy John's to keep the peace.Quote:Originally Posted by The_JazzGucci, you know the answer to that. Personal attacks are always out of bounds. They never were ok anywhere on the board (ok, maybe Nonsense).
Seriously though, thank you. It will be nice not to worry about being yelled at for speaking the truth.Posted 05-29-2009 at 10:04 PM by spectre
Updated 05-29-2009 at 10:19 PM by spectre -
I'm just glad that some people know the truth for what it really is and not some agenda to make themselves look better on a board. Glad to know that bullshit can be put in its place without fear of condemnation, because there has been a lot of shit floating around here for the past couple years and I, for one, am completely sick and tired of it.
For all those who "keep it real" and honest thank you. For those of you who have only an ego to bolster I speak for myself but piss off. The biggest thing I have always hated in life are bullshitters and fakes who spout bullshit.Posted 05-29-2009 at 10:33 PM by guccilvr
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The part that I don't understand is the relevance.
My personal policy is to restrict myself to the content of an individual's post. I don't care if you provide me with documentary evidence that the poster eats puppies -- an interesting discussion is an interesting discussion. Given that this is a discussion forum, I'm readily able to determine what aspect of the persona I see is signal and what aspect is noise, if you can dig that.
This hypothetical unnamed poster is full of shit. I've known that for a long time, I've suspected it for even longer, and I don't think I'm even close to unique in that regard. He isn't someone I'd be particularly interested in sitting down and splitting a pizza with. But I'm perfectly willing to discuss any interesting topics with him. If he wants to spend a lot of time trying to convince a bunch of people on an internet forum how great he is, it's no skin off my nose.
I've never censored myself here. I'm not about to start now. I just don't get why people care so much about this.
I'm unaware of anyone who's departed because of this issue, but then, I don't see why I would need to know such a thing anyway. I find myself questioning someone who's so passionate about such a thing that they feel the need to remove themselves from the environment. It's not that it's wrong, exactly, but just I wonder how such a person would manage to function in the real world, where lies and exaggerations are the rule as often as they are the exception.
I also don't see how this changes anything. I've been doing my thing since day one, which includes pointing out dubious claims when I find them. I will take issue with members being given a carte blanche to persecute or insult someone based on something like this, because that's the opposite of what we stand for. If, as has been indicated, these types of interactions are to be handled in the same respectful manner as always, it's business as usual and I still don't see how it's significant.
I suspect that there's a whole lot of Forum Drama behind this that I'm missing. Given that I do my best to ignore Forum Drama as a rule, I'm not overly surprised if that is the case.Posted 05-29-2009 at 11:15 PM by Martian
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Wasn't he also stabbed? Maybe I'm getting my info mixed up.
Anyways, should I be ashamed to admit that I only knew about 4 of those things?
Much ado about nothing in my book, as I never really took much of this member's stuff too seriously. I understand others did though, which is a pity. He's a decent dude when you ignore all the self-important bullshit. I think Martian spelled it out quite well. This guy has BS written on his forehead, but it doesn't mean he's bad to converse with. Call him on it and move on.
A lot has been made about the harm of "allowing" people like this to do their thing on the board. I've always considered the TFP to be a self-policing community though. I mean, from year one, we had a set of rules and the community could be seen enforcing the rules before moderators ever had a chance to step in. As they say in the New York subway system: if you see something, say something.Posted 05-29-2009 at 11:47 PM by Halx
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Hypothetical - unnamed poster...eh?
Since honesty is so important to you some of you,
why are you publicly flogging an errant member
without mentioning his name? (I, and I feel pretty fucking comfortable
saying WE, know who you are, 'taking to task')
To stay just inside the rules I guess.
We have members who suffer from all sorts of afflictions,
addictions, perversions, and eccentricities too many to count.
Who is the next little problem maker, waiting his turn,
for time in the stocks?
This is a repulsive, and cowardly way to address a problem with a particular poster.
Posted 05-30-2009 at 09:24 AM by ring
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Hell, I'll even come back from the dead just to find out who this is...Posted 05-30-2009 at 09:38 AM by warrrreagl
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Honesty? You're talking about willravel. Why not call "a spade a spade" as you have suggested?Posted 05-30-2009 at 10:03 AM by sapiens
Updated 05-30-2009 at 10:06 AM by sapiens -
Huh. I have no idea what's going on. But at least this explains the fun new status message at the top of the page.
Posted 05-30-2009 at 10:11 AM by CinnamonGirl 
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This is what honesty looks like:
Has anyone ever asked me for a picture of the huge scar on my back? No.Quote:Originally Posted by sapiensHonesty? You're talking about willravel. Why not call "a spade a spade" as you have suggested?
Here:
Sexy, right?
Gucci, would someone that "keeps it real" make passive aggressive threadjacks that kill the discussion? Of course not. The same goes for JumpinJesus, Cynthetiq, and anyone else that's ever decided to make a thread personal. When I first came to TFP, it seemed like a place where people could come and post their opinions and arguments based on the OP. No drama, no bullshit. It was fantastic. That has changed over time. We now have personal squabbles often spilling over into threads, killing them. Worse still, there's a subculture of people here that love to judge other people. Remember that time you (you know who you are) got caught talking about RangerJoe behind her back? Look at how mature we all are as we endlessly gossip.
Let's assume everything I've ever posted about my personal life is complete bullshit. Does that end threads? Well... no actually. I can't think of a single instance that's happened. You say people have left because of it? Prove they left simply because of my supposed lies and not the shitstorm of bullshit kicked up by people a little too fascinated with me. Or maybe they were the kickers and got mad when someone called them on it?
Martin, you've always been honest and straightforward. I appreciate that. Xerxys, you're the man. Halx, but I really appreciate your input here. Ring, as always, you cut straight through the BS and to the heart of things. sapiens, of course, thanks.Posted 05-30-2009 at 10:47 AM by Willravel
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The trend of keeping things anonymous was started in Jazz's post. I didn't feel the need to change that, because I didn't (and still don't) see what purpose it serves.
Forum Drama isn't unique to the TFP and I don't think it's a new phenomenon. Indeed, Forum Drama is a bit of a misleading title for it, because it happens anywhere you get enough people together. With enough conflicting personalities in one place, it's inevitable that some people are going to attempt to elevate their personal differences above the actual meaningful discussion.
It's petty and stupid, but it happens.
Willravel: You fabricated large portions of your personal history out of whole cloth. The natural consequence of this is that anything you claim now or in the future is going to be considered of questionable merit. Your personal credibility has vanished, and you would need to work very hard to regain it, if it can even be done.
I don't know what that scar's from, and I don't particularly care. The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that you're an intelligent man who brings me interesting topics to discuss, and that you frequently have insightful things to say. Your apparent self-esteem issues don't really impact me in any meaningful way, and therefore I could care less. Regardless, my claim that you're full of shit (which I will admit was a bit harsh, and perhaps uncalled for) was relating to the fact that any claims you make regarding your own achievements or merits hold absolutely no water with me.
This whole discussion leaves something of a bad taste in my mouth, if I'm honest. It's not the idea of calling someone out on bullshit I take issue with. It's more that I see this as being a call to single out and ostracize a member of the group who, personal issues aside, hasn't really done anything to harm anyone here. If someone can point out how any of the stories told by Willravel have caused direct or indirect harm to another member of our group, I may be willing to reconsider; until then, I see this whole thing as an exercise to make some people feel superior at the expense of someone who's simply made some poor decisions.Posted 05-30-2009 at 11:37 AM by Martian
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Meh. I like to read some folks posts, and follow their thoughts. Never really gave a lot of consideration about the background one may knit together about some board member or another over the years.
I will still enjoy reading some folks posts, and "hearing" about their thoughts/considerations/concerns. This forum is for enjoyment, entertainment, is a wonderful resource, and often gives me that WFT moment that is lacking in my "3D" (to quote roachboy) life.
Any possible drama, byplay or tapdancing by various members is by-the-by. Geez, if I started worrying about that stuff I might begin to rethink my own desires/motivations behind my own threads, or why I comment in other folk's threads, or blog about what occasionally make me want to just let it out. Meh.
carry onPosted 05-30-2009 at 07:06 PM by kramus
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Since this got totally derailed and the single most important point was ignored by everyone, I want to emphasize it just so people can see it better and not ignore it:
Thank you.Quote:Originally Posted by The_JazzIf you're an oldtimer who doesn't post much any more because you got tired of getting yelled at because your honesty might hurt someone's feelingsPosted 05-30-2009 at 07:15 PM by spectre
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ok, I've been wracking my brain trying to figure this out.
How does one call bullshit in a polite way? Are we allowed to use the word 'bullshit' when calling bullshit? How about idiot? Asshole? Frankly, I don't know of a way of expressing these sentiments politely. In the past (TFP past) I have either used them (rarely) or avoided using them or expressed them through other channels. Which, if I understand correctly, is not being honest. And god knows, the world needs a lot more honesty from me.
I'd just like to have some parameters, please. You know, maybe a spreadsheet of terms that are verboten along with some examples of polite ways I might say, 'you're full of shit,' 'I think you're an idiot,' and 'jesus, how can you be such a dick?'
Thank you.Posted 06-01-2009 at 07:01 PM by mixedmedia
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Why is there a photo of an ass in your blog regarding honesty?Posted 06-01-2009 at 07:16 PM by Taja
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