*Insert Generic "I can't believe this" Title Here* - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

LoganSnake · 10-28-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

RICHMOND, Calif. -- Police believe that as many as 20 people may have either watched or participated in a vicious rape of a high school girl that lasted for more than two hours outside a homecoming dance.

Rather than call for help, some of the students took pictures, police say.

Police have arrested two suspected rapists but believe that between four and seven people could have participated while as many as a dozen stood and watched.

"She was raped, beaten, robbed and dehumanized by several suspects who were obviously OK enough with it to behave that way in each other's presence," Lt. Mark Gagan said.

"What makes it even more disturbing is the presence of others. People came by, saw what was happening and failed to report it."

Police say the girl left the dance and was walking to meet her father for a ride home when a classmate invited her to join a group drinking in the courtyard.

Investigators say she had consumed a large amount of alcohol by the time the assault began.

Officers, acting on a tip, found the girl semi-conscious near a picnic table. She remains hospitalized with non-life-threatening injuries.

Marin Trujillo, a spokesman for the West Contra Costa Unified School District, said there were four police officers and three school administrators monitoring the dance, but the assault happened away from the gym.

Manuel Ortega, 19, was arrested at the scene and was being held on $800,000 bail for investigation of rape and robbery. He is not a student at the school.

A 15-year-old student was taken away from the school Monday and was booked on one count of sexual assault.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,1913458.story

Okay. Two hours. Multiple males. Nobody said anything. For two hours. This is the kind of thing that goes beyond normal human comprehension. The only feasible thing I could think of was that she was completely wasted and didn't protest. Even then, nobody said anything.

guccilvr · 10-28-2009, 12:43 PM

saw this on the news last night..and was completely dumbfounded by the lack of response.

I think I was even more angered by the fact that there are reports that people who weren't involved videotaping it and taking pics with a cell phone.. w.t.f.??

if the 19 year old is guilty, he won't see daylight for a long time and he'll for sure find out what gang raping is all about..

the others, if the evidence is there should be tried as adults.

LoganSnake · 10-28-2009, 12:48 PM

Stories like this is one of the reasons why I don't watch the news. It adds to my already overwhelming dislike for people.

The_Jazz · 10-28-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Stories like this is one of the reasons why I don't watch the news. It adds to my already overwhelming dislike for people.

LoganSnake, it's statements like that that make me think that I'd really like you in person, except for the fact that you're people.

I'm right there with you on this one.

SecretMethod70 · 10-28-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

saw this on the news last night..and was completely dumbfounded by the lack of response.

I think I was even more angered by the fact that there are reports that people who weren't involved videotaping it and taking pics with a cell phone.. w.t.f.??

if the 19 year old is guilty, he won't see daylight for a long time and he'll for sure find out what gang raping is all about..

the others, if the evidence is there should be tried as adults.

Jetée · 10-28-2009, 12:53 PM

Besides the obvious details portrayed by the story, and the ramifications thereof, I can only take in what the article says as speculation.

There is more than a fair share "believe"'s and "may have"'s present throught out the article. Perhaps the victim was assaulted, perhaps by more than one male, and perhaps for a prolonged period of time, upwards of two hours, all the while perhaps being gawked at more by a dozen or more teenage onlookers; but what does it mean?

My general predilection is to say the reason why it was not reported, just in my mind, is because only one " unique clique" was privy to the criminal spectacle. Say, only "the jocks" saw what was going on, and had no inner desire to even ponder about whether this act of degradation is right or wrong, but instead think to themselves, "This is a show! Woo!" and moved on. That's not to excuse anyone, of course, but the near-incomprehensible apathy and malaise that subverts the teenage social ties and aspect of thinking, especially in a group setting, is, well, outrageous.

LoganSnake · 10-28-2009, 01:17 PM

I'm not really sure it's contained just within teenage cliques. I've seen far too many stories where people simply don't react to somebody in need of help. Now, I don't know how I'd react in a situation like that, but I would like to think that it would be more than utter apathy.

The_Dunedan · 10-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Why is anybody surprised at this?

Schools, the Gov't, Police...Hellfire, our entire society have spent the last 30+ years indoctrinating people to believe that they are incapable of defending themselves or others, that to do so "a'int yore place, boy," and that the correct response is to "be a good witness." These kids were simply doing what their schools, teachers, TV news anchors, DARE officers, and assorted other Zampoliti have been telling them to do.

Can't have people taking the law into their own hands, after all.

Plan9 · 10-28-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by They Live! Billboards

Don't Get Involved

ASU2003 · 10-28-2009, 02:59 PM

This is why I support castration for stranger rape. Evolution would work better if these rapists weren't allowed to breed with anyone in the future.

The_Jazz · 10-28-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Why is anybody surprised at this?

Schools, the Gov't, Police...Hellfire, our entire society have spent the last 30+ years indoctrinating people to believe that they are incapable of defending themselves or others, that to do so "a'int yore place, boy," and that the correct response is to "be a good witness." These kids were simply doing what their schools, teachers, TV news anchors, DARE officers, and assorted other Zampoliti have been telling them to do.

Can't have people taking the law into their own hands, after all.

If this were an everyday occurrence, you'd be right. Since it's not, well, you're not.

The fact that we're all feeling righteous indignation means that even if we're being indoctrinated, the process isn't nearly as complete as you'd like us to think it is. So your attempt at indoctrinating us is still incomplete as well as demonstrated by the number of people in this thread saying the opposite of what your anticipated party line would be.

Or we can have some silly conversation about why it's somehow appropriate for high school kids to be allowed to carry firearms, but the presence of alcohol makes that a moronic argument that I don't think either of us particularly wants to have. Mainly because it involves drunk teenagers with guns. Even the US Army is smart enough to realize what a volitile mess THAT would be.

Plan9 · 10-28-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Even the US Army is smart enough to realize what a volatile mess THAT would be.

They are?

Willravel · 10-28-2009, 03:43 PM

Rape prevention would be a good program to institute in middle and high schools in areas with higher rates. Rape prevention generally has a lot more to do with carrying mace or yelling "fire" than it does addressing the real causes as rape. Now would be a very good time to put in place true sexual assault prevention in the form of things like discussing the true motives of rape with students, talking about how to properly deal with feelings of powerlessness and such, and how to appropriately recognize and report warning signs in troubled individuals. Richmond has an opportunity in the wake of tragedy to take an active roll in ensuring that no one else has to go what this student had to go through.

Richmond has about 98 rapes a year, which is about 1.35 times the national average. I wouldn't call it an especially rape-ridden place, but anything above the national rate deserves a bit of attention, which this situation has highlighted. Richmond has a surprisingly high murder rate, too, so this rape is likely a symptom of the same problem which is related to the murders. I'd start be addressing issues of poverty, as quite often crimes like these are tied to financial troubles.

SecretMethod70 · 10-28-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Why is anybody surprised at this?

Schools, the Gov't, Police...Hellfire, our entire society have spent the last 30+ years indoctrinating people to believe that they are incapable of defending themselves or others, that to do so "a'int yore place, boy," and that the correct response is to "be a good witness." These kids were simply doing what their schools, teachers, TV news anchors, DARE officers, and assorted other Zampoliti have been telling them to do.

Can't have people taking the law into their own hands, after all.

I must have missed the "stand there, do nothing, and enjoy watching the crime" lesson. Pretty sure we were taught to call the cops

spindles · 10-28-2009, 03:51 PM

It is easy to sit at our computers and say "I'd jump in to stop something happening", but the fact is that a single outsider rarely has the courage to face down a mob. This story reminds me of this one that happened earlier this year (though this one has a happier ending)

This NRL star saved my girl's life | Herald Sun

Quote:

JUNIOR Sau spent the night at Mayfield Bowling Club. Listening to his DJ cousin spinning discs. About the tamest Saturday night you could ever get for an NRL star.

And for that a young Newcastle girl now owes him her life.

Sau is today being hailed the new White Knight of Newcastle after intervening to save a 15-year-old girl as she was being punched, kicked and glassed in a savage mob assault.

The 102kg centre was driving past a house party in Waratah on Saturday night when he noticed a group of teens encircling the gang bashing as it spilled on to the street.

The girls' distraught parents, who had responded to a phone call and arrived only moments earlier, witnessed Sau jump from his car and move toward the crowd of up to 100 teens who had already begun hurling beer bottles at their car. Speaking out last night, the girl's mother - who asked that her family remain unidentified - said she had no doubt Sau saved her daughter's life.

"When Junior arrived, they still had her on the ground, punching and kicking her in the head," she said. "But when he came across to see what was going on they all sort of moved back. "And to be honest with you, I don't even want to think about what would've happened had he kept driving. Because (name withheld) had already been glassed in the back of the head. (She) remembers someone saying 'we should cut up your face and leave you scarred for life'.

"This was the very first party we had ever let her go to. We'd been told there would be security guards too. But who knows what would've happened if Junior didn't stop to help like he did."

Enjoying a rare afternoon off at home yesterday, 21-year-old Sau said he had only done what any other bloke would've if confronted with the same situation.

"You see four on one, five on one, beating the crap out of a young girl, that's not fair," he shrugged. "I just saw the young girl struggling and basically got out of my car to ask the parents if they needed help.

"I used to be a security guard so I guess in the back of your mind you're thinking that you just need to break up the all-in brawl. I hung around for a while too because the kids were drinking and you never knew what else might happen."

Only hours before Roosters players Jake Friend, Mitchell Pearce and Sandor Earl would be caught up in a wild brawl at city bar Tank Nightclub - where a woman was left with facial bruising - Sau was listening to his cousin DJ for a local cricket function.

But this is far more than simply some positive PR spin midway through another black week for the NRL - as evidenced by a letter the girl's family sent to Knights HQ.

"This act will not be forgotten by our family," the typed thank you said. "We can not thank him enough for what he did. A real gentleman."

Refusing to take matters further with police, the family were last night just thankful their daughter was home safely and able to return to work for the first time yesterday.

She underwent head X-rays on Monday but was cleared of any damage while the glass that was smashed against her head also failed to produce any serious head wound.

"And for that we can thank Junior," the mother said. "Not only for stopping to help but the way he did it. He never shouted or got angry, never tried to intimidate anyone."

The fact is that this guy is a professional footy player and in no way a small guy. I'm not sure I'd have the courage to jump in. I'd like to think I would, but I suspect faced with the situation that I'd be calling the cops.

This is maybe worse in the US as the possibility that one of the hoodlums is carrying makes the this scenario seem a heap more dangerous.

SecretMethod70 · 10-28-2009, 04:07 PM

I don't blame anyone for not stepping in and trying to stop it themselves, but 2 hours? SOMEONE could have called the cops.

guccilvr · 10-28-2009, 04:48 PM

maybe it's just me..but I'd rather have my ass handed to me by a bunch of thugs than stand there and watch some 15 yr. old get raped and beaten.

Willravel · 10-28-2009, 05:09 PM

Oh, it's just you. Why else would you have a camera on your phone?

spindles · 10-28-2009, 05:31 PM

As I said, I'd like to think I'd jump in, but in reality I'm rather timid...

Grancey · 10-29-2009, 09:38 AM

This reminds me of the Kitty Genovese case. It came to my mind when I first heard about this incident in Richmond. If you don't know about it, look it up. Interesting reading.

10-28-2009, 12:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
guccilvr THE drama Super Moderator Location: NC USA Blog Entries: 56	saw this on the news last night..and was completely dumbfounded by the lack of response. I think I was even more angered by the fact that there are reports that people who weren't involved videotaping it and taking pics with a cell phone.. w.t.f.?? if the 19 year old is guilty, he won't see daylight for a long time and he'll for sure find out what gang raping is all about.. the others, if the evidence is there should be tried as adults. __________________ ...We were the victims of ourselves Maybe the children of a lesser god... the best thing about music..is when it hits you.. there's no pain. ~~Bob Marley~~ Have a question about TFP in General? CLICK THIS

10-28-2009, 12:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	Stories like this is one of the reasons why I don't watch the news. It adds to my already overwhelming dislike for people. __________________ There is a core and it's hardcore. All is hardcore when made with love. The love is voice of savage soul. This savage love is understructable. Given enough time all gods and goddesses die, they are then merely replaced with new mythology.

10-28-2009, 12:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jetée Feather Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	Besides the obvious details portrayed by the story, and the ramifications thereof, I can only take in what the article says as speculation. There is more than a fair share "believe"'s and "may have"'s present throught out the article. Perhaps the victim was assaulted, perhaps by more than one male, and perhaps for a prolonged period of time, upwards of two hours, all the while perhaps being gawked at more by a dozen or more teenage onlookers; but what does it mean? My general predilection is to say the reason why it was not reported, just in my mind, is because only one " unique clique" was privy to the criminal spectacle. Say, only "the jocks" saw what was going on, and had no inner desire to even ponder about whether this act of degradation is right or wrong, but instead think to themselves, "This is a show! Woo!" and moved on. That's not to excuse anyone, of course, but the near-incomprehensible apathy and malaise that subverts the teenage social ties and aspect of thinking, especially in a group setting, is, well, outrageous. __________________ * We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us. —Marcel Proust

10-28-2009, 01:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	I'm not really sure it's contained just within teenage cliques. I've seen far too many stories where people simply don't react to somebody in need of help. Now, I don't know how I'd react in a situation like that, but I would like to think that it would be more than utter apathy. __________________ There is a core and it's hardcore. All is hardcore when made with love. The love is voice of savage soul. This savage love is understructable. Given enough time all gods and goddesses die, they are then merely replaced with new mythology.

10-28-2009, 03:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter. Location: Behind the brick wall, inside the gray room, at the black desk. Blog Entries: 14	Rape prevention would be a good program to institute in middle and high schools in areas with higher rates. Rape prevention generally has a lot more to do with carrying mace or yelling "fire" than it does addressing the real causes as rape. Now would be a very good time to put in place true sexual assault prevention in the form of things like discussing the true motives of rape with students, talking about how to properly deal with feelings of powerlessness and such, and how to appropriately recognize and report warning signs in troubled individuals. Richmond has an opportunity in the wake of tragedy to take an active roll in ensuring that no one else has to go what this student had to go through. Richmond has about 98 rapes a year, which is about 1.35 times the national average. I wouldn't call it an especially rape-ridden place, but anything above the national rate deserves a bit of attention, which this situation has highlighted. Richmond has a surprisingly high murder rate, too, so this rape is likely a symptom of the same problem which is related to the murders. I'd start be addressing issues of poverty, as quite often crimes like these are tied to financial troubles. __________________ "So long as governments set the example of killing their enemies, private citizens will occasionally kill theirs." Elbert Hubbard

10-28-2009, 02:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Why is anybody surprised at this? Schools, the Gov't, Police...Hellfire, our entire society have spent the last 30+ years indoctrinating people to believe that they are incapable of defending themselves or others, that to do so "a'int yore place, boy," and that the correct response is to "be a good witness." These kids were simply doing what their schools, teachers, TV news anchors, DARE officers, and assorted other Zampoliti have been telling them to do. Can't have people taking the law into their own hands, after all.

10-28-2009, 02:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: possibly ohio	This is why I support castration for stranger rape. Evolution would work better if these rapists weren't allowed to breed with anyone in the future.

10-28-2009, 04:07 PM	#16 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Learning Administrator Location: Chicago Blog Entries: 41	I don't blame anyone for not stepping in and trying to stop it themselves, but 2 hours? SOMEONE could have called the cops. __________________ Le temps détruit tout

10-28-2009, 04:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
guccilvr THE drama Super Moderator Location: NC USA Blog Entries: 56	maybe it's just me..but I'd rather have my ass handed to me by a bunch of thugs than stand there and watch some 15 yr. old get raped and beaten. __________________ ...We were the victims of ourselves Maybe the children of a lesser god... the best thing about music..is when it hits you.. there's no pain. ~~Bob Marley~~ Have a question about TFP in General? CLICK THIS

10-28-2009, 05:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter. Location: Behind the brick wall, inside the gray room, at the black desk. Blog Entries: 14	Oh, it's just you. Why else would you have a camera on your phone? __________________ "So long as governments set the example of killing their enemies, private citizens will occasionally kill theirs." Elbert Hubbard

10-28-2009, 05:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
spindles Mine is an evil laugh Location: Sydney, Australia	As I said, I'd like to think I'd jump in, but in reality I'm rather timid... __________________ who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

10-29-2009, 09:38 AM	#20 (permalink)
Grancey Life's short, gotta hurry... Location: the peace of wild things	This reminds me of the Kitty Genovese case. It came to my mind when I first heard about this incident in Richmond. If you don't know about it, look it up. Interesting reading. __________________ Cat lovers can readily be identified. Their clothes always look old and well used. Their sheets look like bath towels and their bath towels look like a collection of knitting mistakes. - Eric Gurney They say cats have no sense of time. I don't believe it, but that's what keeps me sane.