Did we all lose our self respect? - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

AgadorSpartacus · 08-18-2008, 07:24 PM

The thread about vanity sizing got me thinking and that can be a dangerous thing.

What are so many women thinking when they get dressed? Do they all own fun house mirrors?

What I'm referring to, are women who are large, especially in the stomach, who dress like they are svelte.

It really got to me when I took my son to Sesame Place a few weeks ago. There were sooooo many overweight and obese women in BIKINIS! Um, I'm thin, and I stick my pasty ass in a tankini. There was one woman who had a serious vajummock (where the stomach hangs down over the front of your shorts - worse than a muffin top) and a triangle bikini top on with her shorts. I think I almost threw up in my mouth a little when I saw her.

Then 2 wks ago I was at the beach and there were all of these girls in their late teens and early 20's with serious beer guts in itty bitty bikinis and a large middle aged woman with a tankini and enormous tits hanging out while she was there with her middle school aged son.

I realize that women come in all shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you look appropriate in everything. Clothes are out there for every body type. I've had a motto for years, "just because it comes in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it!" All these women are doing is drawing negative attention to themselves.

*Nikki* · 08-18-2008, 08:53 PM

Sorry but I disagree with you.

I think a woman should wear what she wants, as long as it makes her feel good. Whenever you start worrying about what everyone else thinks of you, and stop pleasing yourself that is when you lose self respect.

I think your post sounds more then a little conceited....

My body is far from thin and perfect now that I have had a child. I still wear many of the clothes from my thin days, and hey some of them are a little tighter then I would like them to be but I can't afford an entire new wardrobe because of it.

ngdawg · 08-18-2008, 09:38 PM

I don't disagree with the OP. I'm not thin, I'm not in shape and I would never dream of wearing short tops, painted on jeans or go braless. Today while sitting at a Dunkin Donuts, a woman a bit older than me (I'm assuming) and of no discernable shape came in, wearing a tank top whose strap was falling down, had no bra on, her boobs a few inches lower than should be for being braless, capri sweats and flip flops. Maybe it's just me, but when going out in public, a little pride and the desire to not hurt someone's eyes is in order.

I don't think she's talking about wearing something that doesn't fit like it's tailored, she's talking about women who are an obvious size 20, but think they're a hot size 6. If someone has more that one knee per leg and a big enough middle to look like the top of a souffle, then probably a baby tank and Daisy Dukes are not for them. How is it self-respect to look like a clown?
And I'm betting that the ones the most outrageously done up and getting stares think the stares are because they look good....We once saw a girl wearing a thong bikini and had more cellulite holes in her flat ass than a brick of swiss cheese. The snickering that was going on as she walked by was, in itself, hysterical, and the more heads whipped around in disbelief the prouder her strut got. It was classic comedy and that girl was clueless.

It's not conceited to want to look good in public and I've heard the "I dress for myself, no one else" argument-so do I, but I also don't want people gagging as I go by. I'm sure you don't go out in a ratty old tshirt, sweatpants and slippers either.

And it's not just heavy set women. Thin women are guilty of different transgressions, but no less eye-hurting.

Starkizzer · 08-19-2008, 10:16 AM

I don't disagree with the general idea of the OP either but I can see where Niki is coming from. When I was first reading the post, I felt a little angry but I think its just because how it is worded. It does seem like it comes across as mean.

However, I come from a town where MANY women wear clothes that are way too small or falling out of their tops. But just ngdawg is right in that even skinny girls have bad clothing choices. I sat behind this girl in my calc class who was probably a size 10 but was wearing pants a couple sizes too small so when she sat down her entire thong showed and the guy who sat directly behind her tried to put pens and quarters in her pants everyday.

But on the same note I don't know whats wrong with our society in general these days. Guys not too long ago, and many still do, wear their pants falling off their asses; you can go into the little girls section of department stores and see leopard and zebra print panties; the woman's section of many stores do not have stylish clothes forcing many women to try to fit into the juniors sizes. We go straight from juniors to misses in stores, my grandma shops in misses and I certainly do not want to be wearing the same clothes as my grandmother.

Wow, I'm in a rambling mood today hope my post makes sense.

Katyanna · 08-19-2008, 05:36 PM

It takes all kind to make the world go 'round and while I may not think the outfit someone chose is a good look for them it is their prerogative to make the choices they wish. Do I want to look at it? Probably not. I also cannot see myself as making those choices.

You also have to take in mind that not all men appreciate a firmly toned body. There are plenty of guys who "like them big." I do not see the attraction, I really cannot see myself being sexually attracted to an obese man. Again, it is not up to me to decide what gets someone else excited.

mixedmedia · 08-19-2008, 05:52 PM

Why doesn't everyone just try not caring what another person chooses to put on their body? Why judge? Why care?

Getting in other people's business these days is chronic. And I find that to be rather disgusting myself. To each his own.

onesnowyowl · 08-19-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkizzer

But on the same note I don't know whats wrong with our society in general these days. Guys not too long ago, and many still do, wear their pants falling off their asses; you can go into the little girls section of department stores and see leopard and zebra print panties; the woman's section of many stores do not have stylish clothes forcing many women to try to fit into the juniors sizes. We go straight from juniors to misses in stores, my grandma shops in misses and I certainly do not want to be wearing the same clothes as my grandmother.

Wow, what misses section do you shop in? It's not that hard to avoid the "grandma" style clothes in misses' sizing. DKNY and CK Jeans are both in misses' sizing, available at Macy's. I started shopping in the misses section long before I should have moved out of juniors, just because the juniors section all looked like something a hussy would wear. They also started cutting the rise of the jeans way too low. And the "women's" section in most department stores is actually the plus sizes.

But I still don't look like a grandma.

I prefer things that are classic and fit well. You wanna see grandma? Go look at Christopher and Banks next time you go to the mall. :shudders:

girldetective · 08-19-2008, 07:31 PM

I kind of enjoy fashion of all sort on all sorts. I might wonder about someone's choices, and they might wonder about mine.

It gives us all something to talk about. Just today I was at my MD's office and the girl sitting across from me had huge feet. I said, "Girl! you have huge feet. What size shoe do you wear?" "11", she said, and then there we were talking about bodies and fashion.

ItWasMe · 08-19-2008, 10:34 PM

I don't really care whether or not a person chooses to show skin. I do think it looks kind of funny when the clothes are either 2 sizes too big or small. But some don't like how 80-90% of my clothes are black. To each his/her own.

Starkizzer · 08-19-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Wow, what misses section do you shop in? It's not that hard to avoid the "grandma" style clothes in misses' sizing. DKNY and CK Jeans are both in misses' sizing, available at Macy's.

I'm sorry but Macy's tends to be a little too expensive for my budget. I'm used to buying my jeans from Target for less than 25 bucks, so pants that are 40 to 50 bucks at regular price make me go

The department stores I was referring to are Mervyns or JC Pennys. I mean you can find some nice stuff but I went into Kohls to try to find a dress and all the dresses in the misses dept that would fit me looked like mumus with psyhchadelic 70's designs. But I do love my Target I thankfully can find pretty much what I need from there.

I have a problem finding pants that fit me properly, I just had to have im2smrt4u's mom fit all of my nice dress pants, they all fit fine in the waist but were HUGE in the but and thigh area. I felt like I was wearing clown pants.

PS whats Christopher and Banks...don't think we have one of those anywhere near me.

onesnowyowl · 08-19-2008, 11:22 PM

They have a website: Women's Clothing: pants shirts jackets sweaters at Christopher & Banks

Those are grandma clothes, lol.

And yeah, we don't have a Mervyns (they went out of business here) or JCPenney's near where I live--Macy's is closest, and I like the clearance racks

I'm a major bargain shopper, but I buy for value over time. Usually I just buy my pants at Costco or Fred Meyers (which is sort of like a grocery/clothing/discount store rolled into one) and my tops at Target or Fred Meyers. Those $40 jeans at Macy's? You can get the same brand at Costco for half the price or less--but the downside is that you have to know your size in that brand because there's no way to try them on in the middle of the warehouse.

Wow...totally got off the point of the OP, but here's an observation on the same note--I don't buy new clothes when I don't have a lot of extra money. Perhaps these women in the OP are going through economic hardship and can't spare the cash to buy clothes that fit. Shoot, even the prices at Goodwill have gone up so much that I've stopped shopping there.

jewels · 08-20-2008, 07:44 AM

I think it's sad when women objectify other women. It makes me think that young girls/women will never be able to escape the idea that they have to achieve a certain look in order to be accepted. Will anyone ever look good enough? Sigh.

Starkizzer · 08-20-2008, 11:39 AM

In my home town we have a lot of "white trash". I hope that's not too offensive to anyone, but we have a section of town that is even worst than the rest. This is where the hookers, junkies, crackheads, meth addicts...etc hang out. In general we call ourselves desert rats but there are some folks who are just hood rats. I notice a BIG difference going into the Wal-Mart at home and the ones down here at school. At home I'd be afraid to take a kid in there with out having to explain the birds and the bees to them.

I think some people are affected by economic hardships, but there are some people (both men and women) who dress in a way that makes others look down on them. Hence why there are shows like "What Not To Wear". I watch that show, and people on there just say..."whats wrong with the way I dress?" Some people don't know, others don't care, and some just don't have a choice. To each his own, its what makes the world go 'round, right?

AgadorSpartacus · 08-20-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewels

I think it's sad when women objectify other women. It makes me think that young girls/women will never be able to escape the idea that they have to achieve a certain look in order to be accepted. Will anyone ever look good enough? Sigh.

So, you've never looked at someone and thought, "what was she thinking when she put that on?" IMO objectifying a woman would be more like saying that she has to be a certain size (like tiny waist, long legs and large breasts) to be worthy of positive attention from anyone, male or female. I'm in no way insinuating that women are less worthy of feeling good about themselves just because they are a plus size. I am, however, saying that one should play up their assets rather than draw negative attention to themselves. I have many friends that are in the plus size range and I've always respected them for looking fashionable without drawing attention to their size. In fact, they do a damned good job of making themselves look slimmer. I've yet to have a friend or family member who wanted to show off belly rolls, pendulous breasts or cellulite. I'm thin, but have cellulite on the backs of my thighs, just below my rear. You would never catch mem dead wearing short shorts because I don't want to put that on display. I also have stopped wearing midriff bearing shirts and save showing off cleavage for date night with my husband, not because I have a saggy chest or large mid-section. I no longer dress like this because I feel that at 34 and as a mom, it is no longer appropriate to dress like this on a daily basis.

I do realize that just because these are my values and what I find to be appropriate fashion choices, that not everyone shares my views. I just have a hard time with the concept that everything looks good on everyone.

Jenna · 08-21-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgadorSpartacus

So, you've never looked at someone and thought, "what was she thinking when she put that on?"

I'll pipe in, yes, I have thought that. However, I try to stop myself and say "Hey, what am I doing? This is wrong, I shouldn't be so harsh and judge her like that!"

A perfect example of this is Pierce Bronsnan's wife, Keely. She's plus size, and she rocks bikinis.

She gets a lot of shit for it, but hey, I say more power to her. Everyone has different tastes in women and in men. Just because I, or you, or anyone thinks that she looks like shit, doesn't mean her husband doesn't drool over her?

I think what is more easily judged, is the appropriateness of an outfit. So for instance, a large woman goes to a beach in a bikini - sure, you think it's awful but bikinis ARE beach appropriate.

Now, it's a different story if a woman came to work dressed in a midriff top with pants 2 sizes too small. I mean, that's inappropriate no matter what size you are.

jewels · 08-21-2008, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgadorSpartacus

So, you've never looked at someone and thought, "what was she thinking when she put that on?" IMO objectifying a woman would be more like saying that she has to be a certain size (like tiny waist, long legs and large breasts) to be worthy of positive attention from anyone, male or female. I'm in no way insinuating that women are less worthy of feeling good about themselves just because they are a plus size.

I did not mean to leave the impression that I don't sometimes feel disgusted when I wonder if someone checked the mirror that morning. But if I'm spending time and energy upset at someone's belly or hip flab hanging over their too-tight jeans, I'd have to wonder how perfect I am to judge another woman.

If we hadn't been taught to realize that we, as females, have a standard to live up to, we wouldn't sit on our high horses judging others. Yes, I'm guilty, too. But I've finally come to the point where the thought will come, but I let it go immediately. Maybe if we came to a greater awareness collectively, we could influence Madison Avenue's standard of beauty.

Okay, so I'm dreaming ...

Lindy · 08-21-2008, 06:00 PM

I try to be accepting and non-judgmental in matters of race, ethnicity, gender, etc. I do try, though not always successfully.
In matters of style and aesthetics I reserve the right to be as judgmental as I care to. I think that a lot of women (men too, for that matter) can’t think independently enough to distinguish between stylish and attractive. They think that anything that is stylish automatically looks good. They dress that way out of ignorance or stupidity. On the other hand, maybe they know exactly how they look, dress that way on purpose, and it is just their way of saying “Fuck You!” to the world.

Lindy

genuinegirly · 08-22-2008, 12:57 AM

I agree with this part of your post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgadorSpartacus

I realize that women come in all shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you look appropriate in everything. Clothes are out there for every body type. I've had a motto for years, "just because it comes in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it!"

But I do not agree with the rest.

I don't look very good in some colors or styles. I know this. I work with that knowledge. I didn't always know what worked with my body type, but my sister fixed that. Some people don't have such an influence in their lives. it is sad, but true. Agador - Since you seem to have a good eye for what looks bad, why not train your eye to see what looks good. Perhaps you can work with any personal friends who have difficulties working with their body types to find an ideal wardrobe that flatters.

Agador's remarks are cutting and judgemental. If she were to make these comments about someone in front of me, I would work to change the topic. I would also attempt to avoid her in the future. Unproductive and hurtful remarks toward other women encourage a negative body image. Many self-respecting women cannot hear such comments without wondering if someone would lay similar harsh judgment on their behavior or sense of fashion. Self-doubt ensues, and life becomes more difficult.

No, Agador, I'm afraid such comments will not gain you many friends. Here, or elsewhere. Your message is meaningful. Unfortunately you have chosen to express it in a shallow and potentially damaging manner.

Jenna I think the photograph of the woman wearing a bikini that you posted is quite beautiful and flattering. Her confidence makes the image a delight.

little_tippler · 08-22-2008, 03:41 AM

I don't like the tone of the OP but I understand what she is saying.

There are two things here, for me.

1) Accepting the body you have and feeling good about yourself
2) Dressing badly and/or showing too much skin

For me, I don't care what body type a person has. I like to see any shape of body as long as the person dresses themselves well and to suit their body shape.

I don't much care to see people of any size badly dressed, and particularly showing more than I think is nice to see.

I'm pretty thin and I dress in nice clothes and don't often wear tank tops to show my tummy, though I could. I think I'm over that teenage belly-showing phase.

I think any clothes that fit badly on any size body looks bad to awful.

It's not something I think about much...you can't control others so what's the point in getting worked up about it? Eh.

AgadorSpartacus · 08-22-2008, 09:02 AM

[quote=genuinegirly;2511178]

But I do not agree with the rest.

I don't look very good in some colors or styles. I know this. I work with that knowledge. I didn't always know what worked with my body type, but my sister fixed that. Some people don't have such an influence in their lives. it is sad, but true. Agador - Since you seem to have a good eye for what looks bad, why not train your eye to see what looks good. Perhaps you can work with any personal friends who have difficulties working with their body types to find an ideal wardrobe that flatters.

Agador's remarks are cutting and judgemental. If she were to make these comments about someone in front of me, I would work to change the topic. I would also attempt to avoid her in the future. Unproductive and hurtful remarks toward other women encourage a negative body image. Many self-respecting women cannot hear such comments without wondering if someone would lay similar harsh judgment on their behavior or sense of fashion. Self-doubt ensues, and life becomes more difficult.

No, Agador, I'm afraid such comments will not gain you many friends. Here, or elsewhere. Your message is meaningful. Unfortunately you have chosen to express it in a shallow and potentially damaging manner.

You assume that I never compliment people. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm the first one to compliment a great look, friend or stranger. You also assume that I run around going, "EEEEWWW, look at her," everywhere I go. I keep most of my thoughts in that regards to myself, or just share it with my DH. You also say that I should work with my friends to help them find clothes that look right on them. My friends aren't the problem, they all dress very appropriately for their body style, age and envrionment. I agree that I would seem like a rather shallow and boring person if all I ever talked about was people's style, or lack there of. But, since this was a thread about such thoughts, you are only seeing one facet of what makes me tick, and it's a rather small one at that. Don't assume that just because I'm voicing what I believe to be a growing problem among Americans, that it's all I think about and ever talk about. Don't read this as shouting, b/c I know it's hard to read "tone of voice," but rather as just defending myself.

mademoiselle · 08-23-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Why doesn't everyone just try not caring what another person chooses to put on their body? Why judge? Why care?

Getting in other people's business these days is chronic. And I find that to be rather disgusting myself. To each his own.

very well said..its not our responsibility to please others, we should be who we are, and NOT what others want us to be.

Impetuous1 · 08-23-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mademoiselle

very well said..its not our responsibility to please others, we should be who we are, and NOT what others want us to be.

Exactly!

Stop worrying about what other people look like. In addition, why mention women in particular? Seems a bit misogynistic to me.

08-18-2008, 07:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
AgadorSpartacus Upright Join Date: Aug 2008	Did we all lose our self respect? The thread about vanity sizing got me thinking and that can be a dangerous thing. What are so many women thinking when they get dressed? Do they all own fun house mirrors? What I'm referring to, are women who are large, especially in the stomach, who dress like they are svelte. It really got to me when I took my son to Sesame Place a few weeks ago. There were sooooo many overweight and obese women in BIKINIS! Um, I'm thin, and I stick my pasty ass in a tankini. There was one woman who had a serious vajummock (where the stomach hangs down over the front of your shorts - worse than a muffin top) and a triangle bikini top on with her shorts. I think I almost threw up in my mouth a little when I saw her. Then 2 wks ago I was at the beach and there were all of these girls in their late teens and early 20's with serious beer guts in itty bitty bikinis and a large middle aged woman with a tankini and enormous tits hanging out while she was there with her middle school aged son. I realize that women come in all shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean you look appropriate in everything. Clothes are out there for every body type. I've had a motto for years, "just because it comes in your size, doesn't mean you should wear it!" All these women are doing is drawing negative attention to themselves.

08-19-2008, 10:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
Starkizzer Hi floor! Make me a samwich. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Victorville/Pomona	I don't disagree with the general idea of the OP either but I can see where Niki is coming from. When I was first reading the post, I felt a little angry but I think its just because how it is worded. It does seem like it comes across as mean. However, I come from a town where MANY women wear clothes that are way too small or falling out of their tops. But just ngdawg is right in that even skinny girls have bad clothing choices. I sat behind this girl in my calc class who was probably a size 10 but was wearing pants a couple sizes too small so when she sat down her entire thong showed and the guy who sat directly behind her tried to put pens and quarters in her pants everyday. But on the same note I don't know whats wrong with our society in general these days. Guys not too long ago, and many still do, wear their pants falling off their asses; you can go into the little girls section of department stores and see leopard and zebra print panties; the woman's section of many stores do not have stylish clothes forcing many women to try to fit into the juniors sizes. We go straight from juniors to misses in stores, my grandma shops in misses and I certainly do not want to be wearing the same clothes as my grandmother. Wow, I'm in a rambling mood today hope my post makes sense. __________________ Formerly LCfedup Starkizzer Fan Club President: im2smrt4u Vice President: Tully Mars Secretary of the Interior: jerseyboy

08-19-2008, 05:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
mixedmedia loves you Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Florida	Why doesn't everyone just try not caring what another person chooses to put on their body? Why judge? Why care? Getting in other people's business these days is chronic. And I find that to be rather disgusting myself. To each his own. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus

08-19-2008, 07:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
girldetective trusted sidekick Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW	I kind of enjoy fashion of all sort on all sorts. I might wonder about someone's choices, and they might wonder about mine. It gives us all something to talk about. Just today I was at my MD's office and the girl sitting across from me had huge feet. I said, "Girl! you have huge feet. What size shoe do you wear?" "11", she said, and then there we were talking about bodies and fashion. __________________ . . . Running out the door again--blowing you a nice long kiss - DA I'll wager that a year from now you will look back at this with a tug, and a wince... Leto

08-19-2008, 10:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
ItWasMe But You'll Never Prove It. Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: somewhere over the rainbow.	I don't really care whether or not a person chooses to show skin. I do think it looks kind of funny when the clothes are either 2 sizes too big or small. But some don't like how 80-90% of my clothes are black. To each his/her own. __________________ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I bake cakes and cookies just so I can lick the bowl. Love is when you don't want to sleep because reality is better than a dream.

08-18-2008, 08:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nikki open to interpretation Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Charleston, SC	Sorry but I disagree with you. I think a woman should wear what she wants, as long as it makes her feel good. Whenever you start worrying about what everyone else thinks of you, and stop pleasing yourself that is when you lose self respect. I think your post sounds more then a little conceited.... My body is far from thin and perfect now that I have had a child. I still wear many of the clothes from my thin days, and hey some of them are a little tighter then I would like them to be but I can't afford an entire new wardrobe because of it.

08-18-2008, 09:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: on the back, bitch	I don't disagree with the OP. I'm not thin, I'm not in shape and I would never dream of wearing short tops, painted on jeans or go braless. Today while sitting at a Dunkin Donuts, a woman a bit older than me (I'm assuming) and of no discernable shape came in, wearing a tank top whose strap was falling down, had no bra on, her boobs a few inches lower than should be for being braless, capri sweats and flip flops. Maybe it's just me, but when going out in public, a little pride and the desire to not hurt someone's eyes is in order. I don't think she's talking about wearing something that doesn't fit like it's tailored, she's talking about women who are an obvious size 20, but think they're a hot size 6. If someone has more that one knee per leg and a big enough middle to look like the top of a souffle, then probably a baby tank and Daisy Dukes are not for them. How is it self-respect to look like a clown? And I'm betting that the ones the most outrageously done up and getting stares think the stares are because they look good....We once saw a girl wearing a thong bikini and had more cellulite holes in her flat ass than a brick of swiss cheese. The snickering that was going on as she walked by was, in itself, hysterical, and the more heads whipped around in disbelief the prouder her strut got. It was classic comedy and that girl was clueless. It's not conceited to want to look good in public and I've heard the "I dress for myself, no one else" argument-so do I, but I also don't want people gagging as I go by. I'm sure you don't go out in a ratty old tshirt, sweatpants and slippers either. And it's not just heavy set women. Thin women are guilty of different transgressions, but no less eye-hurting.

08-19-2008, 05:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Katyanna Psycho Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Minnesota	It takes all kind to make the world go 'round and while I may not think the outfit someone chose is a good look for them it is their prerogative to make the choices they wish. Do I want to look at it? Probably not. I also cannot see myself as making those choices. You also have to take in mind that not all men appreciate a firmly toned body. There are plenty of guys who "like them big." I do not see the attraction, I really cannot see myself being sexually attracted to an obese man. Again, it is not up to me to decide what gets someone else excited.

08-19-2008, 11:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
onesnowyowl feeling evil Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Corvallis, Oregon	They have a website: Women's Clothing: pants shirts jackets sweaters at Christopher & Banks Those are grandma clothes, lol. And yeah, we don't have a Mervyns (they went out of business here) or JCPenney's near where I live--Macy's is closest, and I like the clearance racks I'm a major bargain shopper, but I buy for value over time. Usually I just buy my pants at Costco or Fred Meyers (which is sort of like a grocery/clothing/discount store rolled into one) and my tops at Target or Fred Meyers. Those $40 jeans at Macy's? You can get the same brand at Costco for half the price or less--but the downside is that you have to know your size in that brand because there's no way to try them on in the middle of the warehouse. Wow...totally got off the point of the OP, but here's an observation on the same note--I don't buy new clothes when I don't have a lot of extra money. Perhaps these women in the OP are going through economic hardship and can't spare the cash to buy clothes that fit. Shoot, even the prices at Goodwill have gone up so much that I've stopped shopping there. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-20-2008, 07:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Space Coast	I think it's sad when women objectify other women. It makes me think that young girls/women will never be able to escape the idea that they have to achieve a certain look in order to be accepted. Will anyone ever look good enough? Sigh. __________________ Politics is applesauce. - Will Rogers

08-20-2008, 11:39 AM	#13 (permalink)
Starkizzer Hi floor! Make me a samwich. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Victorville/Pomona	In my home town we have a lot of "white trash". I hope that's not too offensive to anyone, but we have a section of town that is even worst than the rest. This is where the hookers, junkies, crackheads, meth addicts...etc hang out. In general we call ourselves desert rats but there are some folks who are just hood rats. I notice a BIG difference going into the Wal-Mart at home and the ones down here at school. At home I'd be afraid to take a kid in there with out having to explain the birds and the bees to them. I think some people are affected by economic hardships, but there are some people (both men and women) who dress in a way that makes others look down on them. Hence why there are shows like "What Not To Wear". I watch that show, and people on there just say..."whats wrong with the way I dress?" Some people don't know, others don't care, and some just don't have a choice. To each his own, its what makes the world go 'round, right? __________________ Formerly LCfedup Starkizzer Fan Club President: im2smrt4u Vice President: Tully Mars Secretary of the Interior: jerseyboy

08-21-2008, 06:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lindy Crazy Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston	I try to be accepting and non-judgmental in matters of race, ethnicity, gender, etc. I do try, though not always successfully. In matters of style and aesthetics I reserve the right to be as judgmental as I care to. I think that a lot of women (men too, for that matter) can’t think independently enough to distinguish between stylish and attractive. They think that anything that is stylish automatically looks good. They dress that way out of ignorance or stupidity. On the other hand, maybe they know exactly how they look, dress that way on purpose, and it is just their way of saying “Fuck You!” to the world. Lindy

08-22-2008, 03:41 AM	#19 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: on the other side	I don't like the tone of the OP but I understand what she is saying. There are two things here, for me. 1) Accepting the body you have and feeling good about yourself 2) Dressing badly and/or showing too much skin For me, I don't care what body type a person has. I like to see any shape of body as long as the person dresses themselves well and to suit their body shape. I don't much care to see people of any size badly dressed, and particularly showing more than I think is nice to see. I'm pretty thin and I dress in nice clothes and don't often wear tank tops to show my tummy, though I could. I think I'm over that teenage belly-showing phase. I think any clothes that fit badly on any size body looks bad to awful. It's not something I think about much...you can't control others so what's the point in getting worked up about it? Eh. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

08-22-2008, 09:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
AgadorSpartacus Upright Join Date: Aug 2008	[quote=genuinegirly;2511178] But I do not agree with the rest. I don't look very good in some colors or styles. I know this. I work with that knowledge. I didn't always know what worked with my body type, but my sister fixed that. Some people don't have such an influence in their lives. it is sad, but true. Agador - Since you seem to have a good eye for what looks bad, why not train your eye to see what looks good. Perhaps you can work with any personal friends who have difficulties working with their body types to find an ideal wardrobe that flatters. Agador's remarks are cutting and judgemental. If she were to make these comments about someone in front of me, I would work to change the topic. I would also attempt to avoid her in the future. Unproductive and hurtful remarks toward other women encourage a negative body image. Many self-respecting women cannot hear such comments without wondering if someone would lay similar harsh judgment on their behavior or sense of fashion. Self-doubt ensues, and life becomes more difficult. No, Agador, I'm afraid such comments will not gain you many friends. Here, or elsewhere. Your message is meaningful. Unfortunately you have chosen to express it in a shallow and potentially damaging manner. You assume that I never compliment people. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm the first one to compliment a great look, friend or stranger. You also assume that I run around going, "EEEEWWW, look at her," everywhere I go. I keep most of my thoughts in that regards to myself, or just share it with my DH. You also say that I should work with my friends to help them find clothes that look right on them. My friends aren't the problem, they all dress very appropriately for their body style, age and envrionment. I agree that I would seem like a rather shallow and boring person if all I ever talked about was people's style, or lack there of. But, since this was a thread about such thoughts, you are only seeing one facet of what makes me tick, and it's a rather small one at that. Don't assume that just because I'm voicing what I believe to be a growing problem among Americans, that it's all I think about and ever talk about. Don't read this as shouting, b/c I know it's hard to read "tone of voice," but rather as just defending myself.