Willravel

Imagine my shock upon discovering that the greatest debate of all time hadn't yet been given a home on TFP!



James Tiberius Kirk. What is there to say? The man is a space-god. After being one of the only survivors of the massacres of Tarsus IV, he served with distinction at Starfleet Academy, graduating at the top 5% of his class. Because of his exploratory work at Starfleet, he was promoted to a full Lieutenant, bypassing Ensign (which he has served on the USS Republic during his schooling).

He rose in the ranks quickly by showing incredible aptitude in leadership and ability, besting gas monsters (which would prepare him for future, shinier gas cloud monsters). At age 31, Kirk was the youngest captain in the history of Starfleet. At this point in his life, he had developed an awesomeness normally reserved for the likes of Church Norris facts or Johnny Depp.

I won't go into great detail about his work which was covered in the series or the movies, but leave us say that Kirk is one of the most memorable characters in TV, movie, or inappropriate homoerotic slash fanfic history.

Among his great strengths are his unconventional (yet highly effective) hand to hand combat fighting methods, his apparent racism towards Klingons, the ability to make people laugh with his fuzzy balls, his incredible battle tactics, and his ability to rally his crew with an undeniable Kirk swagger. Also, women love him in a way only a writer could imagine.



Jean-Luc Picard. What do you get when you cross Aristotle, Dr. Henry Jones, Alexander the Great and Winston Churchill? Captain Jean-Luc Picard, that's who. Also roachboy, I suspect, but the amounts of each differ. Consult the recipe. Born of a great French lineage that included everything from explorers to wine makers, Picard apparently developed a British accent at a very young age. When he wasn't fighting with his older brother, Robert (no, it's pronounced ro-bear, like "row boat"), he was looking to the stars and dreaming of exploring the galaxy.

After one failed attempt, Picard applies to and is accepted to Starfleet Academy, where he earned very high marks and was considered one of the best cadets in his class. While he excelled at sports, particularly running, he also started to develop an appreciation for archeology which would develop into a life-long passion. While playing a rigged game of dom-jot with some friendly Nausicans(

), Picard was caught in a deadly fight and was stabbed through the chest. This was a pivotal moment in the life of Picard; a moment when he realized his own mortality, which caused him to mature and cast off some of his youthful pride and recklessness.

After graduating with distinction from Starfleet Academy, Picard demonstrated great leadership skills and judgment, causing him to be promoted quickly. His first command was on the Stargazer, a Constellation-class starship, where he served for 22 years. In those 22 years, Picard led the Stargazer on many adventures as he honed his uncanny leadership and captaining skills to near-perfection.

His assignment as capitain of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701D was the opening of the series Star Trek: TNG.

Among his strengths are his ability to provide a worthy adversary to Q (who is for all intents and purposes a god), unmatched debating and negotiation skills, being an intergalactic sex symbol without embellishing the role (like some people...), a master tactician, and is the perfect delegater.


Okay, so let the debate begin...

I may be biased because I didn't experience TOS when it originally ran, but I believe Picard to be the superior captain. Captain Picard chose to go back in time to 20th century Earth via the holodeck, wheras Kirk managed to find his way back there on accident nearly half the series. You'd never have to clean Picard's semen out of the holodeck after he'd used it. Moreover, Picard demonstrated greater abilities in his delegation, negotiation, and exploration.

Thoughts?

Fremen

Wow, this should be good!

I grew up on TOS, played with the toys as a kid.
I convinced myself that I was ok because my chubby little boy-boobs were the same as Kirk's muscled pectorals.

You knew Kirk would save the day when his shirt came off.
He was the perfect hero for a kid growing up. An action hero.
----
Now, Picard. Picard came around when I was 18 or 19.
He wasn't so much an action hero, as a thinking hero.
I liked the way he reasoned out the solution to a problem, had some tea, then solved it.
Sometimes he even reverted to the action hero when things got too sticky.

--

If I had to put my life in the hands of a starship captain, I'd have to say Picard is the captain to go with.

I feel I've betrayed my childhood, though.

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LoganSnake

I didn't even had to look at the thread to know who made it when I saw it on the front page....

Just a thought...

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Willravel

Freman, I like your take. Kirk was the perfect hero for a young person and Picard for an adult.

Logan, huh? If it's because I'm a Star Trek fan, then I'm honored!

Edit: I'm excited about The_Jazz finding this thread and posting his obligatory "NERDS" post.

inBOIL

Picard, obviously. All Kirk does is fight and fuck. Picard thinks. Plus, he resisted Kamala. Could you do that? Hell no.

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cybermike

I feel just a little nerdy since those mini-biographies didn't tell me anything new

Kirk was a racist hippie! His sexual advances were borderline sexual harassment. The only thing more creepy is Richard Dawson on Family Feud.

Picard was more reserved. He was smarter than Kirk. He didn't let his emotions get in the way of what needed to be done. He was a big fan of pre-21st century literature. I don't think there was a book on his shelf dated post-1999. Apparently, there's no really good entertainment in the future because man that guy is stuck in the past!

Personally, My favorite Captain was:

Oh sure, Sam is a Major, No wait, Lt. Colonel, I mean Colonel now.. But still she could still be demoted back to Captain, just like Kirk

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Willravel

Maybe we can have Carter vs. Starbuck next time.

cybermike

You could actually have a Starbuck vs Starbuck


vs


but I think I know who'd win

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Prophecy

For my money Picard hands down. Also put me in the same boat as Freeman & Willravel, Kirk for the kids and Picard for the adults.

However, my favorite captain to date is Benjamin Sisko with Jean-Luc a close second.

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Daniel_

Clearly it's NEW Starbuck - everyone knows that smoking is a really bad habit.

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Charlatan

Kirk is the ultimate modernist hero. He is all about dominating and conquering the other denizens of the Universe to his way (the Federation way). Despite his rhetoric, he is a conquering hero out to colonize. His crew is mainly human. His ethos is to bring about conformity.

Picard is the ultimate post-modern hero. His job is the police the already largely conquered Universe. He can live up to the Federation rhetoric of non-intervention as most of the other denizens of the Universe have already joined the cause. He has the appearance of being open to Others. His crew is made up of many different races and types. However, they have all internalized the message of the conquering Federation. Colonization is much closer to completion (with some notable exceptions in the Romulans, Ferengi and Cardasians). As such, the Other has largely been subsumed and conquered or rendered completely "evil". Picard's ethos is one of fairness and multiplicity; he is a diplomat and thinker. However, despite protestations to the contrary, he travels the Universe in a military ship. A ship that is armed to the teeth and is ready to defend (and even expand) the frontier.

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eribrav

But you need to put Kirk in the right historical context.
You're accusing him of improprieties that you see with modern world view; back then he took the giant leap of kissing a black woman on screen, which was viewed as very edgy behavior. Today it's not even an issue at all (except for the fact that Nichelle is such a hotty and will be for all time!). Back then, did the term sexual harassment even exist?

yellowmac

Picard.

I mean, he's got a tactical maneuver named after him. That alone reeks of bad-ass.

With his leadership style, I'd be his #2. I get the feeling I'd want to punch Kirk in the face after three days.

shoegirl

Agreed. Picard gets my vote!

QuasiMondo

That's all you need to know about Captain James T. Kirk.

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ratbastid

She smokes.

She could also totally fucking TAKE DOWN the old Starbuck. She may be among my favorite characters on TV right now, right up there with Benjamin Linus and Alton Brown.

tecoyah

Picard is the Man's Man.....Kirk is the Womans Man.


Kirk was a great captain for his time...But would be dead by episode two in the new order of the galaxy.

Picard would have kicked Klingon Ass to the point that they would have crumpled before the original series even ended.

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onesnowyowl

Picard, hands down. He's clearly the sexier of the two choices. Especially when he says, "Tea. Earl Grey. Hot."

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Willravel

Hmmm... episode 2 of TNG was the intoxication episode.... oh god, yeah Kirk would have screwed everything on the ship. Twice.

jewels

Picard all the way.

Kirk is a much better attorney, though.

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Anxst

Picard, all the way.

Kirk, for all his machismo, just doesn't have a broad reaching enough leadership skill, imho. He couldn't lead me anywhere. I'd just want to punch him in the face after a few days.

Picard, on the other hand, I can see leading a group of damn near anything. I'd follow him wherever he wanted to lead us.

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Willravel

I'd say the same thing, save for one location: Star Trek Nemesis. Not even Picard, with all his intellect and refinement, could save that poor script.

Speed_Gibson

Picard would have never have cheated on theKobayashi Maru, but he did lose his heart as a youngster by jumping into that bar fight with those bony faced aliens.

My choice is Kirk for numerous reasons

if the question was asked "What Enterprise would you prefer to serve on given the choice?" I would pick the Kirk Era Constitution class despite all of the fancier toys on the Excelsior/Ambassador/Galaxy/Sovereign models that followed.

edit: I do prefer watching the mid 23rd century era where the captain goes down on away missions but it makes more sense what they do on TNG - who would seriously send down the CO, 1st officer, and third in command down on the same trip into unknown and possibly quite dangerous situations.

and Sisko is a close second if not first in some respects on my list of favourite captains.

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Willravel

Who? Someone looking to advance quickly, that's who!

luciferase75

Pickard for me. I enjoyed TNG in high school. I prefer brains over swagger, probably because that's the way I roll, too.

And there is a maneuver named after Kirk too, they mentioned it in the Nemesis movie I think.

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