Role of sex in books? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Zeraph · 10-27-2009, 02:59 PM

How much of a role do you think sex should play in a good novel? This includes all the genres except the romance/erotic novels of course.

I got to thinking of classics (again excluding romantic classics) and I can't think of 1 sex scene in the whole bunch. Do you think it was more a sign of the times? Or is it just distracting in a good book that has a real message? I mean, it's certainly a lot more realistic for the characters to be having sex in the book, just like they would in real life. So what do you think? Will the classics of the future have sexual exploits in them?

thirdsun · 10-27-2009, 04:18 PM

Well, if you are excluding the "romantic" genres (whatever in your mind those are), then it's kind of a moot question, isn't it?

Perhaps if you listed what titles you consider to be "classics without sex" then a more meaningful discussion might have a chance to blossom here.

Just a friendly suggestion.

Zeraph · 10-27-2009, 05:10 PM

Thought I was clear was all.

Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, The Giver, Of Mice and Men, A Tale of Two Cities, Catch-22, Lord of the Flies, Moby Dick, ...etc

Or anything by Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Chaucer, Steinbeck, etc...

There may be a few examples here and there but overall I can't recall any sex in 'em.

Charlatan · 10-27-2009, 05:23 PM

I think you are seeing a reflection of cultural norms. If you look at some of the more modern books you've listed and compare them to films made at the time of their writing you will also see a lot less sex. If you go even further back to Dickens, I think you will find sex to be absent from most mainstream novels and literature of that time. It just wasn't done. This is even more true when you understand that some of Dickens work first appeared serialized in newspapers (there were bound into book form later).

It also helps to remember that books like DH Lawrence's Lady Chatterly's Lover and Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer were banned from publication and distribution for many years because of the content (much of it specifically because of the sex scenes). Tropic of Cancer was first published in 1934 but did not get released in the US until 1961. Lady Chatterly's Lover was first published in Italy in 1928 but did not get released in the UK until 1960.

If you wanted your book to be read by a wide audience... you wrote what would be accepted. This is as true today as it was then.

mixedmedia · 10-27-2009, 06:23 PM

Plus, I think you will find in many classics that the subject of sex is broached, but not graphically illustrated. And whether it is or not, is not indicative of a 'more modern' book, in my opinion.

boink · 10-27-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

Thought I was clear was all.

Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, The Giver, Of Mice and Men, A Tale of Two Cities, Catch-22, Lord of the Flies, Moby Dick, ...etc

Or anything by Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Chaucer, Steinbeck, etc...

There may be a few examples here and there but overall I can't recall any sex in 'em.

so you wanted a passage where Ahab has a quick wank before bed ?

or maybe the Artful Dodger gives Fagin a BJ ?

heh, I mean a sex scene in alot of these classics would be totally out of place let alone beyond cultural tolerance of the day.

GreyWolf · 10-27-2009, 08:37 PM

Classic books are replete with sexual scenes. The problem is that we don't recognise them because by today's standards, they're so veiled and dull. Shakespeare was notoriously lewd in his comedies. Lady Chatterly's Lover is an obvious sex book. Wuthering Heights suggestion of sexual improprieties was almost scandalous for the time.

We don't recognise the licentiousness of classic novels because we don't live by the standards of those days. But certainly, a lot of classic novels are at least risqué. Some were close to pornographic (Lolita?).

But getting to your original question about the role of sex in a novel, unless it aids in the development of the plot or the characters, sex scenes tend to be distracting. In addition to drawing attention away from the plot, they often seem contrived and superfluous to the narrative. If I want graphic descriptions of sex, I'll surf the net. If I want a good story, I'll go to a bookstore.

Plan9 · 10-27-2009, 08:57 PM

Aaah, the hot'n'wet plot device. Seems to me most sex scenes in novels are either vaguely pornographic or serve as a symbol of that disgusting L-word.

...

Characters in novels also aren't often detailed as "taking a dump" or other normal human processes. Oral hygiene is practically nonexistent.

...

This thread reminded me of the sex bits in 1984. I don't think the "classics" of the future will be defined by sex or no sex.

Except stuff by Bret Easton Ellis, of course.

Ce'Nedra · 10-31-2009, 02:03 PM

There's plenty of sex in older literature, it's just not always as graphic.

Chaucer? Really? He was all about lewd sex jokes and innuendos! Sometimes it just takes some decoding of the language. But he was pretty risque. And if I remember my high school English summer reading correctly, Shakespeare has a couple of sex scenes. Not graphic, over-the-top, romance novel sex. But again, they're there.

10-27-2009, 02:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zeraph Eye See You Location: The Cosmos	Role of sex in books? How much of a role do you think sex should play in a good novel? This includes all the genres except the romance/erotic novels of course. I got to thinking of classics (again excluding romantic classics) and I can't think of 1 sex scene in the whole bunch. Do you think it was more a sign of the times? Or is it just distracting in a good book that has a real message? I mean, it's certainly a lot more realistic for the characters to be having sex in the book, just like they would in real life. So what do you think? Will the classics of the future have sexual exploits in them? __________________ "What silence can there be, what lack of sound compare to a snowfall from dark air falling quietly to sea?" luv ya

10-27-2009, 04:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
thirdsun shines on Blog Entries: 60	Well, if you are excluding the "romantic" genres (whatever in your mind those are), then it's kind of a moot question, isn't it? Perhaps if you listed what titles you consider to be "classics without sex" then a more meaningful discussion might have a chance to blossom here. Just a friendly suggestion. __________________ Answers are a perilous grip on the universe. They can appear sensible, yet explain nothing. --The Zensunni Whip "Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness." James Thurber

10-27-2009, 05:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zeraph Eye See You Location: The Cosmos	Thought I was clear was all. Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, The Giver, Of Mice and Men, A Tale of Two Cities, Catch-22, Lord of the Flies, Moby Dick, ...etc Or anything by Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Chaucer, Steinbeck, etc... There may be a few examples here and there but overall I can't recall any sex in 'em. __________________ "What silence can there be, what lack of sound compare to a snowfall from dark air falling quietly to sea?" luv ya

10-27-2009, 05:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Bringing a Chill to the Tropics Moderator Location: Lion City Blog Entries: 35	I think you are seeing a reflection of cultural norms. If you look at some of the more modern books you've listed and compare them to films made at the time of their writing you will also see a lot less sex. If you go even further back to Dickens, I think you will find sex to be absent from most mainstream novels and literature of that time. It just wasn't done. This is even more true when you understand that some of Dickens work first appeared serialized in newspapers (there were bound into book form later). It also helps to remember that books like DH Lawrence's Lady Chatterly's Lover and Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer were banned from publication and distribution for many years because of the content (much of it specifically because of the sex scenes). Tropic of Cancer was first published in 1934 but did not get released in the US until 1961. Lady Chatterly's Lover was first published in Italy in 1928 but did not get released in the UK until 1960. If you wanted your book to be read by a wide audience... you wrote what would be accepted. This is as true today as it was then. __________________ “Under a separation of state and economics, especially with laissez-faire capitalism [Free Trade], the state no longer has a role to play in protecting the people and assuring their happiness. Laissez-faire means capitalism is outside the regulatory control of the state and that the people are entirely at the mercy of the capitalists.” – Thomas Jefferson

10-27-2009, 06:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
mixedmedia gives up Location: Florida Blog Entries: 81	Plus, I think you will find in many classics that the subject of sex is broached, but not graphically illustrated. And whether it is or not, is not indicative of a 'more modern' book, in my opinion. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

10-27-2009, 08:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
GreyWolf Insane Location: Eastern Canada Blog Entries: 4	Classic books are replete with sexual scenes. The problem is that we don't recognise them because by today's standards, they're so veiled and dull. Shakespeare was notoriously lewd in his comedies. Lady Chatterly's Lover is an obvious sex book. Wuthering Heights suggestion of sexual improprieties was almost scandalous for the time. We don't recognise the licentiousness of classic novels because we don't live by the standards of those days. But certainly, a lot of classic novels are at least risqué. Some were close to pornographic (Lolita?). But getting to your original question about the role of sex in a novel, unless it aids in the development of the plot or the characters, sex scenes tend to be distracting. In addition to drawing attention away from the plot, they often seem contrived and superfluous to the narrative. If I want graphic descriptions of sex, I'll surf the net. If I want a good story, I'll go to a bookstore. __________________ *She was not quite what you would call refined.* *She was not quite what you would call unrefined.* *She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot. - Mark Twain*

10-27-2009, 08:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
Plan9 Gorilla Cum Laude Location: Prime Self Blog Entries: 114	Aaah, the hot'n'wet plot device. Seems to me most sex scenes in novels are either vaguely pornographic or serve as a symbol of that disgusting L-word. ... Characters in novels also aren't often detailed as "taking a dump" or other normal human processes. Oral hygiene is practically nonexistent. ... This thread reminded me of the sex bits in 1984. I don't think the "classics" of the future will be defined by sex or no sex. Except stuff by Bret Easton Ellis, of course. __________________ "The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people." Formerly username "Crompsin." Last edited by Plan9; 10-27-2009 at 09:09 PM..

10-31-2009, 02:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ce'Nedra Upright Location: Deep South	There's plenty of sex in older literature, it's just not always as graphic. Chaucer? Really? He was all about lewd sex jokes and innuendos! Sometimes it just takes some decoding of the language. But he was pretty risque. And if I remember my high school English summer reading correctly, Shakespeare has a couple of sex scenes. Not graphic, over-the-top, romance novel sex. But again, they're there.