Zeraph

or the 'force' from star wars, psychokinesis, etc. I like to have realistic reasoning when I'm reading scifi and fantasy. Plus I like theory crafting. So for fun:

What form of real energy/force or whatever could travel through empty space and transfer into a vector of kinetic energy upon touching an object or being?

The only thing I can think of is the electromagnetic force except one needs absurd amounts of energy to affect things with weaker charges like organic beings (I think is how it works...I know we've levitated small spiders and frogs with really really intense fields). And if one has that much energy then using it to simply push/pull stuff is a huge waste.

Gravity is the same way, as you'd need even more absurd amounts of energy to warp space enough to create a gravitational surge capable of moving decent sized objects.

The strong nuclear force I'm pretty sure only works on other gluons and that other thing to make protons and neutrons. The weak nuclear force maybe as that acts between electrons and the nucleus. But I dunno.

I suppose one could direct cold plasma...but I don't think that would transfer kinetic energy very effectively. Same thing with photons and the like.

Any ideas?

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fresnelly

Warping the space between you and the object.

Obviously you want to affect only the object so the force would have to channel through some sort of independent quantum tunnel(s) that link to the object but nothing else.

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Zeraph

Doesn't that go back to my gravity argument? If you have enough energy available to warp space enough to move an object at a decent speed....simply moving objects telekinetically would be a huge waste as you could do things on the order of magnitude of creating stars and black holes.

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"What silence can there be,
what lack of sound compare
to a snowfall from dark air
falling quietly to sea?"

luv ya

ratbastid

Bah. How about direct spontaneous quantum entanglement between the particles of the adept's mind and the particles of the affected matter?

"Spooky action at a distance"--sounds like telekinesis to me!

Zeraph

As far as I know q. entanglement only really works on the small scale, like between 2 particles. Not two whole objects. Also, the mind* doesn't have any particles to entangle with, it's intangible

*mind and brain = different

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"What silence can there be,
what lack of sound compare
to a snowfall from dark air
falling quietly to sea?"

luv ya

ratbastid

The mind is an emergent phenomenon of the brain. There is no mind absent brain activity, which takes place on the cellular, atomic, and subatomic level. If one could project quantum entanglement from one's cerebral subatomic particles onto those of an object or another person, one could influence the physical properties of that object, let alone just its location--and with enough practice, that could even be accomplished via mental, conscious processes. All a thought is, after all, is a series of electrical patterns in the cerebellum.

Also, in 2007 QE was demonstrated at a distance of one meter. We're obviously talking about someone with remarkable abilities here--first the ability to map and entangle a remote object's particle matter onto their own cranial particle matter, and second to extend that entanglement at a significant distance. But hell, if it was easy, everybody'd be doing it.

Willravel

An invisible buddy.

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Martian

Carbon nanotubes.

They're the modern equivalent of nuclear radiation. Drop carbon nanotubes into the explanation somewhere and it'll be accepted without question.

That or genetic engineering.

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I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
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Zeraph

Carbon nanotubes are matter though, which would enact the whole equal and opposite reaction clause, which would mean any force you send out would hit you too. So sending someone flying would also send you flying.

ratbastid- my problem with that is that again, like the whole warping space argument, you could do some seriously powerful and crazy shit if one was capable of that. You'd pretty much be a demigod and I'm looking for an explanation of average scifi or fantasy characters with such abilities. None of them are that powerful.

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"What silence can there be,
what lack of sound compare
to a snowfall from dark air
falling quietly to sea?"

luv ya

thirdsun

What is the difference, technically, between telekinesis and psychokinesis?

I always got the impression from watching the Star Wars movies that the Jedi telekinesis was because they were attuned to their Oneness with the Force and hence interconnected with all things. So, any material object is basically under their influence, if they so choose. Hence also, the mind control tricks and influencing the gambling cube with a wave of the hand.

As such, there may be no strict scientific explanation for that type of energy other than to call it mental energy and to believe you possess that energy in suffient strength based on your oneness with the Force.

Therefore, the explanation becomes "concentrate and focus your mental direction on an object at hand and visualize exactly what you want to do with it: raise it in the air, spin it around, hurl it, pull it out of a swamp, etc. and believe that you have the power to do exactly as you visualize."

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ratbastid

Well. None of them have ever exhibited being that powerful (except the ones who have, of course--I'm looking at you, Dr. Manhattan). Doesn't mean they're not, or that their particular arrangement of brain neurons doesn't limit them to particular sorts of actions. Maybe they can't change the arrangement of matter, just the location of it.

MSD

So ... you want to know how something that doesn't and can't exist works, but you're not willing to stretch the laws of physics to do it? Let's extrapolate quantum tunneling (crudely described, it works by creating a junction between two regions in which it is more likely that an electron, whose position is a probability distribution rather than a point, in the vicinity of the junction will occur on the n side than the p side) to a grand scale and say that's behind it.

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ratbastid

Yeah... The OP does seem like a bit of a setup, unless you're willing to suspend disbelief in the pseudo-scientific. In fiction, the point isn't that it could actually happen. The point is that it SOUNDS like it could.

Zeraph

Exactly. Sounds like it could work. I'm not looking for how or why, just an explanation that *looks* like it would fit. So far none of them do.

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"What silence can there be,
what lack of sound compare
to a snowfall from dark air
falling quietly to sea?"

luv ya

telekinetic

Maybe they are. I know that even if I had latent telekinetic abilities capable of imploding the moon, but that required conscious awareness and manipulation, I'd be far more likely to stumble onto the fact that I could lift a teacup or knock over a chess piece first. Most telekinesis stories I've read do have an element of 'train up your power' to them, so maybe the limit is a limit of concentration? How much matter can your brain focus on at once?

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Zeraph

Maybe. Despite the realism edge to this thread though I am talking about fiction. This is all my opinion and I'm just looking for help on how to view fictional characters with this ability. To me none of the explanation make sense except for Dr. Manhatten type characters, but they already make sense anyway. I'm looking for an explanation for the average fantasy characters that have more normal, lift a chair to a car type powers.

__________________
"What silence can there be,
what lack of sound compare
to a snowfall from dark air
falling quietly to sea?"

luv ya