CB_Brooklyn

What happened at the WTC on 9/11? Let's look at the data:


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Where Did All The WTC Structural Steel Go?



See the animation on this page:
http://www.acebaker.com/9-11/HTR/web...s/HTRHome.html


Each tower had 47 massive core columns, that if laid end-to-end would stretch over 20 miles. Where'd it all go?

Where's all the desks, chairs, computers, xerox machines, water coolers, telephones, filing cabinets, and carpeting? Where'd it all go?


Kindly show evidence of this material at Ground Zero after the attacks, but before it was supposedly trucked away. While you're at it, also show evidence of the perimeter columns which stretched around all four sides of each tower from top to bottom. You must show enough steel to account for two 1/4 mile high towers.



Where did the steel spire go? Watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVRh4U2BlhQ

fastom

I think a better question would be "How did it go?"

There is a big basement and certainly quite a bit of rubble which would have destroyed fax maxhines and desks. It looked like enough rubble to account for all the building.

But how in heck did the big steel girders break into pieces? It seems something caused the inside structure of the building to just give way. There is no reason for the center columns to be destroyed below the fire area.

Dilbert1234567

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paulskinback

You'd be surprised what can break into tiny pieces of dust with all that weight coming down on top of it.

Everything was pulverised, and a lot of the rubble was red/dark orange from the amount of human remains spread all over it.

There was also a hell of a lot of large steel girders I remember seeing on the news that were taken to an island nearby and basically piled up before being recycled

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MSD

The thing that makes the WTC collapse so unbelievable is that we'd never seen a building that big fall before. When the shear force on metal passes a certain point it remains solid but behaves like a liquid.

The website you linked to is so poorly designed that I'm not even sure what they're trying to say on some pages, but if it's trying to convince me that energy weapons were used on the WTC, it failed miserably. The glass and concrete were pulverized and became the dust cloud that covered Manhattan after the collapse. The steel is visible in ground zero photos. Most of it collapsed and compacted into the "bathtub" foundation. The outer cage ended up partially in the crater and partially sprawled out across nearby streets and buildings. The fact is that buildings wouldn't be of much use to us if they weren't mostly empty space. Sure, there might be 20 miles' worth of columns in the core, but let's say for the sake of argument that they're at most 10% steel. The concrete turned to dust and the rebar was crushed into the pile that went from several stories below ground level up to several stories above the ground. In [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTCgroundzero.jpg]this[/img] picture, you can see part of the shell that is still upright, 15-20 stories high above the rubble pile using a nearby building approximately the same distance from the camera as a reference point.

The spire fell straight toward the camera, which was having difficulty autofocusing because of the dust and smoke in the air and because of the rapid fall of the spire.

fastom

OK, but WHY did the "spire" fall? Why did the concrete pulverize into dust? Especially at the top that had nothing falling on it.
Some sort of energy other than gravity felled those towers and in that regard the site is right.
Interesting stuff about the towed cars and the firetrucks, some of it is more innocently explainable though.

ratbastid

Gravity felled the towers. Jet fuel poured down the central support and caught fire, superheating and weakening the core supports. Under a 1/4 mile fall, everything that was pulverizable pulverized--either from the distance it fell, or from the weight of what fell on top of it.

fastom

Say what? Are you talking about the same World Trade Centers... in New York?

There was no pouring jet fuel in the center... that's the stairwells and elevator shafts and nobody reported blazes in there.

Pulverization isn't a normal event, distance does not equal pulverization... oddly enough.

Try a simple experiment: After you finish the Cap'n Crunch and slurp up all the extra milk take the bowl and hold it up high. Now let go.

Did the bowl pulverize before it hit the ground? Did the bowl turn into fine powder after it hit the ground, or maybe just break into five pieces? Try dropping another bowl on top of it, keep going until you get thorough pulverization or run out of the world supply of bowls.

shakran

I think you need to review the video footage of that day. The top of the tower was intact as it fell. Only after it hit the ground did it pulverize.

Considering the number of REAL conspiracies and general dumbassery that's going on in government today, it never ceases to amaze me that people prefer to fantasize about fake ones.

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CB_Brooklyn

Rense Picked Up Dr Judy Wood's 9/11 Work

http://www.rense.com/general75/melt.htm

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Willravel

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evide...tion_waves.mpg
I hope that this will clear up any confusion on either side of this.

Facts:

- Most of the fuel burned up in the initial impact in the cases of both towers, and also the Pentagon. This was made evident from the large balls of fire visible in the various videos taken that morning. In order to understand this, one must imagine when a gas can explodes. If anyone has ever exploded a gas can, one knows that while there is some residual fire after the initial explosion, the vast majority of the fuel is ignited instantly and cannot burn for more than a few seconds. Likewise, when the planes hit the towers and the Pentagon, most of the fuel burned up withing a few seconds. The impacts would have instantly punctured the fuel containers in the wings, causing much of the fuel to splatter and ignite in a loose form. What little fuel was left did cause fires inside the buildings, as was evident by the smoke, but one must also take into account the amount of smoke....

- Over the course of the hour or so that each building burned, it was clear by video evidence that the smoke coming from each building was not increasing, but was in fact decreasing quickly. Any firefighter can attest to this being a clear indicator that the fire is dying down, and that it's usually on it's way out. Please feel free to contact your local fire department to verify this, as I did. To be clear, the fires going out means that the high temperature would not have been reinforced by a continuing blaze; the temperature would have begun dropping quickly.

- According to the Journal of Australian Fire Investigators, kerosene ignites at around 444°F. The temperature that the fire will eventually reach depends on both the combustion rate (based on O2) and the rate at which heat can be disbursed in the given scenario. Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived. Again, please contact professionals to verify this if you wish. In an oxygen deprived environment, higher temperatures cannot be reached. You can test this yourself by comparing a match in the open vs. a match in a bottle with a very small hole.

- Each WTC tower had roughly 200,000 tons of steel. As I'm sure Dilbert can verify, steel is a very good conductor of heat. When one applies heat to a small area of a large steel structure, that heat will disperse and spread quickly throughout the whole of the structure.

- In data provided by the Corus Construction Centre, the usual safety margins for construction, the WTC towers could have easily withstood fires reaching and exceeding temperatures of 1022°F.

- According to Dr. Shayam Sunder, the Cheif of NIST Materials and Construction Systems Division, "Now, several of you have heard about or thought about the fact that the jet fuel would have burned, caused the building to burn, and probably think the jet fuel played the sole role in the fires. The jet fuel acted much like a matchstick. It was something that spread throughout the building in those affected floors and caused ignition of the fires. But the jet fuel itself burnt in a matter of minutes, within less than ten minutes. So what burned over the next hour, or hour and a half, was really the contents of the buildings, the everyday contents of the buildings."(warning, .pdf file...but notice that it is from the official NIST.gov site). This is further indication, and from someone who is more expert than most, that the jet fuel itself would have burned off in "less than ten minutes".



I'll add more later, for sure, but I wanted to clear up just a few points so that we're all on the same page. Everyone have a great weekend, and CB_Brooklyn welcome to the site.

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fastom

I reviewed it...again... and i see the same as always. Incredible amounts of "pulver".

How is that there doesn't even need to be much movement before the concrete just vaporizes? In a natural fall (and that ain't one!) it would have made a gigantic pile of concrete chunks... instead there is some steel (maybe enough, though the original post does raise that valid question) but where in heck is all the concrete? Did looters steal it?

Willravel

I personally think that the controlled energy weapon theory is at least as likely if not more likely than the generally accepted story. Unfortunately, there is not enough evidence to support the energy weapon or controlled demolition theories at this time. We'd need the proverbial or literal smoking gun.

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CB_Brooklyn

Watch the steel spire turn to dust:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVRh4U2BlhQ

Cavi Mike

I suggest everyone here get your hands on a copy of Loose Change 2nd Edition. It will answer all of your questions including the "jet fuel melted the steel" theory which is quickly debunked by the fact that even fully oxygenated pure kerosene can't reach and sustain 2000 degrees Fahrenheit which is what it would take to weaken steel enough to lose it's strength to the point of bending. It can only reach 1500 degrees and like I said, it would have to be fully oxygenated from the inside of the flame, which is impossible without a source, plus it's inside of a building where the very small amount of oxygen in the air was consumed almost instantly. The reality is the fuel inside that building burned closer to 800 degrees or didn't burn at all, just smoldered.

random facts;
-jet fuel is nothing more than refined kerosene and those "turbo-heater" space heaters are nothing more than jet engines
-structural steel melts at roughly 2700F

Without air, there is no fire.



Loose Change can be found on any torrent site. If you're torrent illiterate I may be willing to allow some to download it from me. I don't have a lot of monthly "bandwidth" so even a couple downloads is going to put me well over my transfer limit.

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Dilbert1234567

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samcol

Google video hosts dozens of user uploaded 9/11 videos. Here's a link to the loose change one: Loose Change 2nd Edition

Not DVD quality but it does the trick.
Also,
Martial Law 9/11 Rise of the Police State

I'm having problems linking them, anyway just do a search for them under google video if anyone wants to see them for free.

fastom

Dil, you don't know steel from Shinola...

What are you meaning by "well before melting" , ten degrees less?

Ever seen an electric stove element? You can have a big heavy pot of stew up there and it doesn't crash down. The thing is glowing red, it's more than 3/4 of the way to melting into a blob and yet still retains most of it's strength?
Turbo charger exhausts can glow red and be much closer to melting yet still hold up a 75 lb turbo and not bend.

I believe you have steel confused with butter.

CB_Brooklyn

You're right about the "big heavy pot" example. Dr Wood uses similar examples here.

The_Jazz

I believe you have low-grade steel confused with high-grade structural steel. They're made in different ways and designed to do different things. A stell pot won't hold up a building, and structural steel doesn't conduct heat as efficiently.

Try again.

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Willravel

I was really hoping you might respond to my longer post, Dil. I know we've gone through some of it before, but I tried to stick to cold, hard provable facts.

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