Is it Fake? - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

tecoyah · 07-03-2007, 07:12 AM

May be a very well done fake......OR?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YcHHl_...elated&search=

Martian · 07-03-2007, 09:20 AM

According to the thread on the very same Youtube video, it's part of an ad for a camera phone.

Pity, eh?

holly9000 · 07-05-2007, 06:04 PM

Well, if Martian doesn't know then I guess nobody does. Too bad-looked pretty realistic.

Willravel · 07-05-2007, 06:09 PM

Still, thousands of people a year say they've seen ufos. It make me skeptical, but hungry for proof.

Martian · 07-06-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holly9000

Well, if Martian doesn't know then I guess nobody does. Too bad-looked pretty realistic.

Reason tells me that this is a joke riffing on my username, but my ego wants me to believe that it's because of my obviously unparalleled skills of deduction and reasoning.

Baraka_Guru · 07-06-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Still, thousands of people a year say they've seen ufos. It make me skeptical, but hungry for proof.

What about all the people who say they've seen angels?

jackdalton · 07-12-2007, 12:21 PM

I think seeing things like angels, god, or whatever are just vision. so it meens, they aren't actually there... So filming something like this is a non-sense to me.

Willravel · 07-12-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

What about all the people who say they've seen angels?

Touche. Still, I'd personally rather see proof for extra terrestrial intelligent life than angels, mostly because of my lifelong love affair with great science fiction. It sparks the imagination.

Martian · 07-12-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Touche. Still, I'd personally rather see proof for extra terrestrial intelligent life than angels, mostly because of my lifelong love affair with great science fiction. It sparks the imagination.

That is valid, and speaking person to person I share your fascination. However, even when we're on opposite sides of a debate you've always struck me as a man of reason and logic, which means I don't need to remind you that personal desire has no place in a discussion regarding proofs and probabilities. Discounting eyewitnesses (who are notoriously unreliable), there's no concrete proof that any sort of extraterrestrial beings have ever visited Earth, or even that any exist. It's sad but true.

Willravel · 07-12-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

That is valid, and speaking person to person I share your fascination. However, even when we're on opposite sides of a debate you've always struck me as a man of reason and logic, which means I don't need to remind you that personal desire has no place in a discussion regarding proofs and probabilities. Discounting eyewitnesses (who are notoriously unreliable), there's no concrete proof that any sort of extraterrestrial beings have ever visited Earth, or even that any exist. It's sad but true.

Just because I'd like to think something exists hardly makes it so. I'm of the opinion that any scientist who says there is it's likely there is life out there is talking out of their ass. The Drake equation is a fallacy. Because we have no understanding about how life may form outside of the Earth, it's foolish to assume we can guess, with the incredibly limited knowledge we have now, as to any reasonable answer to the question of life on other planets or how much of said life may be intelligent.

So let me be clear: There is no evidence to suggest there is extraterrestrial life.

Baraka_Guru · 07-12-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

[...]Because we have no understanding about how life may form outside of the Earth, it's foolish to assume we can guess, with the incredibly limited knowledge we have now, as to any reasonable answer to the question of life on other planets or how much of said life may be intelligent.

Considering what we don't yet know about earth, I'm always amazed that the amount of time and energy people spend looking beyond our atmo. And considering earth isn't even a closed system, this means it may be a long time before we even know most of what there is to know of earth...scientifically speaking. Come on, quantum physics!

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

So let me be clear: There is no evidence to suggest there is extraterrestrial life.

No, I suppose not. However, I do have at least some interest in evidence that would contribute to the probability of life outside of earth. Intelligent life is an entirely different matter, of course. The likelihood of there being anything other than human intelligence is quite small, indeed.

Some excellent points so far, willravel.

liquidlight · 07-12-2007, 05:40 PM

Didn't you guys see Transformers?! All our technology is from ALIENS!!!!!

hehe On a more serious note, I'd reason that if a civilization could overcome the massive problems facing the possibility of interstellar travel then their technology would be sufficiently advanced to the point that we'd never detect them. Something along the line of "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

(edited to get the quote right)

raithneach · 08-04-2007, 10:17 AM

This video is part of an advert for the Sci Fi channel.

tecoyah · 08-10-2007, 04:30 PM

Next....

http://xoinks.com/mov/view_video.php...3c8272c8dcba92

pan6467 · 08-11-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

That is valid, and speaking person to person I share your fascination. However, even when we're on opposite sides of a debate you've always struck me as a man of reason and logic, which means I don't need to remind you that personal desire has no place in a discussion regarding proofs and probabilities. Discounting eyewitnesses (who are notoriously unreliable), there's no concrete proof that any sort of extraterrestrial beings have ever visited Earth, or even that any exist. It's sad but true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

So let me be clear: There is no evidence to suggest there is extraterrestrial life.

Really??????

Stanton Friedman gives a good debate:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfhome.html

But he's just out there to make money off of it. Forget the fact he was an accomplished nuclear physicist, he in 1967 decided to just throw it all away and go after the millions of dollars to be had in UFOs, in the late 60's and early 70's.

But then again, why do the Egyptians in their pyramids have drawings of aliens we call "grays".

http://netscientia.com/egypt.html

And of course these guys are all raving nuts looking for attention

all quotes are found here: http://netscientia.com/ufo_quotes.html along with many others.

Quote:

Gen. Douglas MacArthur that, "...the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets. The politics of the future will be cosmic, or interplanetary"

(And for those Snopes fans who want to debunk it: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/macarthur.asp)

Quote:

"All Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence."
--Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems.

Quote:

"At no time, when the astronauts were in space were they alone: there was a constant surveillance by UFOs."
--NASA's Scott Carpenter

Quote:

When asked if he believed that UFO's were real;"Yes as a matter of fact I do." He was also asked if he had ever seen a UFO and he said he had, on his Gemini mission. He went on to say that he tried to take a picture of it, but it did not come out.
--Brigadier Gen. James Mc Divitt command pilot of the Gemini space craft. (This interview can be seen on a video tape called Beyond Belief, from United Entertainment, Inc. 1986.)

Quote:

On the campaign trail, soon-to-be President Jimmy Carter promises that upon election, he would make public all the government's information on UFO sightings.
"I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. I've seen one myself!"
--President Jimmy Carter (1976)

Quote:

"I looked out the window and saw this white light.It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said,Have you ever seen anything like that? He was shocked and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light.We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."
--President Ronald Reagen (Describing his 1974 UFO encounter to veteran newsman Norman C. Miller, then Washington bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal.)

Quote:

"I think about how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And I ask you, does not this threat alread exsist?"
--President Ronald Reagen UN address

Quote:

"The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."
--Mikhail Gorbachev

But it's all hooey and there is no proof, right?

Roswell was just a weather balloon, thousands of pictures, millions of eyewitnesses, hundreds of stories that appear, all the quotes in the Bible referring to aliens, the Egyptian, Mayans, and so on all have detailed pictures of "grays", men in spacesuits, all talk of other worlds and so on..... all hooey.

I just find it very small minded to debunk something just because there is "no proof" in your view.

Also very egotistical to believe as infinite as the universe is we are alone.... even worse is to believe that if there is life out they aren't advanced enough to fly the distances needed to come here.

I'm not saying we are special but perhaps we are of interest to them because we are developing into a potential threat. Who knows? But I believe and will forever believe.... because I have yet to see PROOF they don't exist.

Lokus · 08-19-2007, 02:32 PM

First off let me say that I do believe that there is intelligent life in the universe somewhere. Certainly there is life, even if it's not life as we know it but the universe is too vast not to contain other intelligent life. Of course, our universe also may just be a simulation in which case we may be the only intelligent virtual life as some sort of experiment, who knows.

Anyway Pan, I find your evidence utterly unconvincing. Just because someone is famous, doesn't give their opinion any more validity than Joe Schmoe who claims to have been anally probed. The only ones I would believe would be astronauts and the NASA guys. They say they believe but they have no evidence. Why is it that the aliens would show themselves to human eyes but not electronic sensors? Also, are there any other sources for the quotes listed above besides Gen. MacArthur? It's kind of funny that you would snopes him because I have no trouble believing that he said that. MacArthur was a bit of a loon, he repeatedly disobeyed orders and was convinced that a group of veterans lobbying for their bonus had been infiltrated by communists. Also I doubt the US had the capability to monitor or detect UFO's reliably in 1955 so MacArthur's position doesn't give him any more credibility than the average person claiming to see UFO's.

As for the Egyptian stuff, I only read through some of it because the constant five question marks after every sentence got on my nerves. The picture doesn't clearly show a gray on the drawing. Notice how all the people are in profile and in color while the alien is not. It's hardly definitive, more akin to people seeing the face of Jesus in their toast. If you want to see something, you will. Also the article says that Egyptians included pi to the 15th digit in the pyramids yet pi wasn't even discovered then. First off, pi was known approximately 4,000 years ago and there was even an Egyptian text with the value of pi. Secondly, using my own calculator and the original size of the pyramid in Egyptian cubits, pi is only accurate to 2 places. And I'm sure the Egyptians could make a perfectly square structure, they had a measuring system.

You say it's small minded to disbelieve something because you believe there's no proof. Well, how else are we supposed to believe in anything? Every idea out there has some sort of proof in someone's mind, that doesn't mean that I find the proof valid. If you go to a flat earther website, they have all kinds of justifications for what they believe. Does that mean that you or I are small minded because we dismiss it? I don't think so. I'm open to new views but in the end I'll decide what I do or don't believe in the absence of hard facts.

The real reason I don't believe in UFO's is why. Why would aliens who are so technologically advanced that they can travel interstellar distances bother with us? We aren't a threat to anyone except ourselves and the Earth. While we have the capability to leave our atmosphere, it is rudimentary at best and unlikely to improve in the near future. I would also assume that any society that is so technologically advanced would be socially and morally advanced as well and wouldn't abduct random humans for nefarious purposes. I just don't see it happening.

If I saw incontrovertible evidence or a UFO or aliens with my own eyes, I would change my mind. But to believe in something which can never be disproved means that you will never change your mind. Consider that for a second before you call others small minded or egotistical.

pan6467 · 08-22-2007, 11:02 AM

In the end it comes down to belief. I believe because I feel there's "evidence" in the Bible, from NASA, from films, from drawings throughout history, and because no one can prove that UFOs don't exist. Others disbelieve because the "evidence" is sketchy and one can interpret the "evidence" any way they wish, thus I may see "grays" someone may see shadows and unclear markings, I may read in the Bible, an interview, etc and interpret things one way, someone else may interpret another (go figure).

I can say that I believe why would the "aliens" want to make themselves known when we are still so gung ho to kill each other. Yet, that doesn't mean they aren't interested and not watching. Or perhaps, we are an off breed and a lab example, and much like we treat our experiments they watch us closely. Perhaps, they have made themselves known and the leaders are slowly integrating the idea into society.

If they just "appear" and say "we come in peace", they may get killed, our religious foundations would crumble, our oil based economy would die (not that that is a bad thing but it should happen naturally and be phased out), etc.

So in the end, much like religion and "GOD" one can only base one's belief by faith.

Racnad · 08-22-2007, 04:29 PM

Let's clarify our language here. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object." So do I beleive that people see flying objects they can't idenfity? Of course I do! (Ironically, if you're certain you've seen Starbuck flying her Viper in from the planet Caprica, you've identified it and it's not a UFO)

The question, "Are UFO's spacecraft flown by alien civilizations?" is an entirely different question. Here's some thoughts on this.

It is jumping to a conclusion to conclude that if it's not a bird, a plane or a helecopter that it must be an intersteller spaceship. You also have to consider that it might be a rare atmospheric phenomena that is not well understood. Although we've been on this planet a long time, it still gives us surprises.

Anyone who says there is or is not intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is speculating. We don't know, and any conclusions on that question depend on what assumptions you are making.

If intelligent life does exist it is very rare and technological civilizations are even more rare. The SETI Project has been looking for radiological evidence of alien civilization for for decades and has found nothing so far. While we can't conclude whether or not life exists elsewhere, we can conclude that this neighborhood of the galaxy looks nothing like the visions of Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas. (I'm intrigued by the universe of BSG - other than humans and Cylons no other intelligent life is known - this scenario is more likely.)

There has always been a small percentage of people who are fantasy-prone and beleive they are visited by and communicate with non-human beings. But the form these beings take depend on their world-view. In times gone by, people were visited by trolls, elves or faries. While religious people see angles, demons or dead pophets, most people aren't that religous, and no one beleives in faries. But most people for the past few decades do believe that aliens may exist and have seen science fiction TV and movies about them, so it is no coincidence that these people claim to have been visited by greys inspired by X-Files and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

So my answer to "Are we being visited?" is "probably not."

pan6467 · 08-22-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racnad

Let's clarify our language here. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object." So do I beleive that people see flying objects they can't idenfity? Of course I do! (Ironically, if you're certain you've seen Starbuck flying her Viper in from the planet Caprica, you've identified it and it's not a UFO)

The question, "Are UFO's spacecraft flown by alien civilizations?" is an entirely different question. Here's some thoughts on this.

It is jumping to a conclusion to conclude that if it's not a bird, a plane or a helecopter that it must be an intersteller spaceship. You also have to consider that it might be a rare atmospheric phenomena that is not well understood. Although we've been on this planet a long time, it still gives us surprises.

Anyone who says there is or is not intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is speculating. We don't know, and any conclusions on that question depend on what assumptions you are making.

If intelligent life does exist it is very rare and technological civilizations are even more rare. The SETI Project has been looking for radiological evidence of alien civilization for for decades and has found nothing so far. While we can't conclude whether or not life exists elsewhere, we can conclude that this neighborhood of the galaxy looks nothing like the visions of Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas. (I'm intrigued by the universe of BSG - other than humans and Cylons no other intelligent life is known - this scenario is more likely.)

There has always been a small percentage of people who are fantasy-prone and beleive they are visited by and communicate with non-human beings. But the form these beings take depend on their world-view. In times gone by, people were visited by trolls, elves or faries. While religious people see angles, demons or dead pophets, most people aren't that religous, and no one beleives in faries. But most people for the past few decades do believe that aliens may exist and have seen science fiction TV and movies about them, so it is no coincidence that these people claim to have been visited by greys inspired by X-Files and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

So my answer to "Are we being visited?" is "probably not."

Ah, but SETI has found some non-"natural" sounds.

Plus SETI can only "see" so far and only "looks" for what we know.

If there are other, more intelligent civilizations out there, how do we know they haven't tried to communicate but we lack the technology to "hear" them?

Again, I believe the universe is teeming with life and it is very self serving to believe we are it, or the most intelligent or the only ones that know how to communicate.

If there are aliens and they can get here and are superior in technology, they could easily block out what signals there are in space.

Martian · 08-23-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

In the end it comes down to belief. I believe because I feel there's "evidence" in the Bible, from NASA, from films, from drawings throughout history, and because no one can prove that UFOs don't exist. Others disbelieve because the "evidence" is sketchy and one can interpret the "evidence" any way they wish, thus I may see "grays" someone may see shadows and unclear markings, I may read in the Bible, an interview, etc and interpret things one way, someone else may interpret another (go figure).

The problem with this stance is that it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove that extra-terrestrial life doesn't exist, nor can I prove that we haven't been visited by greys. The question for me, then, needs to be one of probability. And, well... let's talk astronomy.

Recently, a NASA probe made headlines. New Horizons completed a fly-by of Jupiter back in February en route to the Kuiper belt and Pluto-Charon. Using Jupiter's gravity for a boost, New Horizons was able to increase it's speed to just over 36 000 mph, making it the fastest spacecraft we've ever launched. For reference, if we were to express this speed as a mach number it would be roughly mach 47.

At that speed, New Horizons ought to reach the outer edges of our solar system around July of 2015, almost 8 years from now and approximately 9.5 years after launch.

The star nearest our own is Proxima Centauri. Proxima Centauri is a red dwarf star with absolutely no ability to support life as we understand it and no known planets; it's about 4.2 light years away. If we were to direct New Horizons, the fastest spacecraft we've ever launched, towards Proxima Centauri, it would get there in approximately 681 million years.

But maybe the greys are more advanced. I can dig that. Our fastest speed is roughly 0.000005% the speed of light. If we assume that our extra-solar amigos are advanced beyond anything we can begin to dream of and can accelerate their vehicles to, say, 1% the speed of light (and somehow ignore the relativistic effects) then it would only take them 42 years to get here from Proxima Centauri. Well, maybe they're really long lived; only, we've already established that life as we know it is incapable of existing at Proxima Centauri, since the star itself isn't hot enough and doesn't have any known planets, so they'd have to get there from somewhere else. Maybe they're from the Centauri system (which consists of Alpha Centauri, Beta Centauri and Proxima Centauri); if so, that'd be an amazing stroke of fortune. If not, then we'd have to look elsewhere. There are a handful of stars 20 light years or less from our own; if we assume that our alien friends can handle a 200 year trip without any real ill effects, then they are candidates. Except that there are only one or two of them that are capable of supporting life as we understand it (depending on how loose our criteria are). Outside of that, the distances and attendant times get very big, very quickly. And then, we have to ask the question of why would they trundle along in deep space for even 40 years to come and visit us who, speaking in galactic terms, have only just stuck our toe out on our own doorstep?

Therein lies the problem with the idea of extra-terrestrials coming to visit us, as I see it. People are quick to apply the balm of 'advanced technology' without really understanding what a cognitive leap it is. Space is big. Really big. Our galaxy is 100 000 light years across and is one of billions in the Universe. The nearest star is 4.2 light years away, which sounds like a small number. It looks a lot less small when we express it in miles and find that it comes to just over 24 000 000 000 000 (twenty-four trillion). We can then couple this with a few little informational nuggets from physics. For one, we know from the thoery of relativity that physics are the same all over for everyone. So our aliens need to obey the rules just like everyone else. We can then combine another piece of information provided by the same theory, which is that the closer we get to the speed of light, the more energy it takes to accelerate further (remember e=mc^2?); and thus, we know that even hitting 1% of the speed of light for anything more than a single particle would take more energy than we've generated in all of human history. Them's some pretty advanced aliens and they're going to an awful lot of trouble for us.

Mind, through all this I'm not saying it's impossible. I just don't see it as terribly likely and it's going to take more than a few blurry drawings and vague quotations to convince me, even if said quotations come from a host of former US Presidents.

Racnad · 08-23-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

Ah, but SETI has found some non-"natural" sounds.

Plus SETI can only "see" so far and only "looks" for what we know.

If there are other, more intelligent civilizations out there, how do we know they haven't tried to communicate but we lack the technology to "hear" them?

I'm not aware of anything SETI has found where natural causes have been ruled out. Do you have a reference?

I've spoken with SETI, and contrary to what most people would think, there're not just looking for alien sports broadcasts. There main focus is bursts of radio energy that are by-products of major industrial activity.

If there are alien civilizations nearby then their techology is pre-industrial (there's no reason to say they don't exist, because we have no way of detecting them, plus the latest observations show that planets ARE common), or they don't use radio for communications at all (I can't imagine that) and their industry prodices no radio signals (again, hard to imagine).

Quote:

Again, I believe the universe is teeming with life and it is very self serving to believe we are it, or the most intelligent or the only ones that know how to communicate.

That is a belief, but the facts needed to prove or disprove it are simply not available.

Quote:

If there are aliens and they can get here and are superior in technology, they could easily block out what signals there are in space.

Proposing that aliens have the technology to evaporate radio signals hat have alread been emitted, without evaporating natural radio signals is a BIG leap. This is even more far-fetched than creationists who claim the the Earth is 6,000 years old and that light & radio signals that suggest a billion-years-old universe were created by God en-route in order to test our faith.

07-03-2007, 07:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary Join Date: Nov 2003	Is it Fake? May be a very well done fake......OR? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YcHHl_...elated&search=

07-03-2007, 09:20 AM	#2 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada	According to the thread on the very same Youtube video, it's part of an ad for a camera phone. Pity, eh? __________________ Some will win, some will lose Some were born to sing the blues Oh, the movie never ends It goes on and on and on and on - Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

07-05-2007, 06:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Willravel [wil-ruh-VEL] Join Date: Aug 2004	Still, thousands of people a year say they've seen ufos. It make me skeptical, but hungry for proof. __________________ ɯǝɥʇ ǝʌlos uɐɔ ǝʍ ʇɐɥʇ ǝɔuɐɹouƃı ɥƃnoɹɥʇ ʇou sı ʇı 'sɯǝlqoɹd ǝʇɐǝɹɔ uɐɔ ǝƃpǝlʍouʞ ɟı

07-12-2007, 05:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	Didn't you guys see Transformers?! All our technology is from ALIENS!!!!! hehe On a more serious note, I'd reason that if a civilization could overcome the massive problems facing the possibility of interstellar travel then their technology would be sufficiently advanced to the point that we'd never detect them. Something along the line of "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke (edited to get the quote right) __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

08-19-2007, 02:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
Lokus I can't think of a good title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: East Bay Area, CA	First off let me say that I do believe that there is intelligent life in the universe somewhere. Certainly there is life, even if it's not life as we know it but the universe is too vast not to contain other intelligent life. Of course, our universe also may just be a simulation in which case we may be the only intelligent virtual life as some sort of experiment, who knows. Anyway Pan, I find your evidence utterly unconvincing. Just because someone is famous, doesn't give their opinion any more validity than Joe Schmoe who claims to have been anally probed. The only ones I would believe would be astronauts and the NASA guys. They say they believe but they have no evidence. Why is it that the aliens would show themselves to human eyes but not electronic sensors? Also, are there any other sources for the quotes listed above besides Gen. MacArthur? It's kind of funny that you would snopes him because I have no trouble believing that he said that. MacArthur was a bit of a loon, he repeatedly disobeyed orders and was convinced that a group of veterans lobbying for their bonus had been infiltrated by communists. Also I doubt the US had the capability to monitor or detect UFO's reliably in 1955 so MacArthur's position doesn't give him any more credibility than the average person claiming to see UFO's. As for the Egyptian stuff, I only read through some of it because the constant five question marks after every sentence got on my nerves. The picture doesn't clearly show a gray on the drawing. Notice how all the people are in profile and in color while the alien is not. It's hardly definitive, more akin to people seeing the face of Jesus in their toast. If you want to see something, you will. Also the article says that Egyptians included pi to the 15th digit in the pyramids yet pi wasn't even discovered then. First off, pi was known approximately 4,000 years ago and there was even an Egyptian text with the value of pi. Secondly, using my own calculator and the original size of the pyramid in Egyptian cubits, pi is only accurate to 2 places. And I'm sure the Egyptians could make a perfectly square structure, they had a measuring system. You say it's small minded to disbelieve something because you believe there's no proof. Well, how else are we supposed to believe in anything? Every idea out there has some sort of proof in someone's mind, that doesn't mean that I find the proof valid. If you go to a flat earther website, they have all kinds of justifications for what they believe. Does that mean that you or I are small minded because we dismiss it? I don't think so. I'm open to new views but in the end I'll decide what I do or don't believe in the absence of hard facts. The real reason I don't believe in UFO's is why. Why would aliens who are so technologically advanced that they can travel interstellar distances bother with us? We aren't a threat to anyone except ourselves and the Earth. While we have the capability to leave our atmosphere, it is rudimentary at best and unlikely to improve in the near future. I would also assume that any society that is so technologically advanced would be socially and morally advanced as well and wouldn't abduct random humans for nefarious purposes. I just don't see it happening. If I saw incontrovertible evidence or a UFO or aliens with my own eyes, I would change my mind. But to believe in something which can never be disproved means that you will never change your mind. Consider that for a second before you call others small minded or egotistical. __________________ The black wind howls...

07-05-2007, 06:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
holly9000 Upright Join Date: Jun 2005	Well, if Martian doesn't know then I guess nobody does. Too bad-looked pretty realistic.

07-12-2007, 12:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
jackdalton Banned Join Date: Jul 2007	I think seeing things like angels, god, or whatever are just vision. so it meens, they aren't actually there... So filming something like this is a non-sense to me.

08-04-2007, 10:17 AM	#13 (permalink)
raithneach Upright Join Date: Aug 2007	This video is part of an advert for the Sci Fi channel.

08-10-2007, 04:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary Join Date: Nov 2003	Next.... http://xoinks.com/mov/view_video.php...3c8272c8dcba92

08-22-2007, 11:02 AM	#17 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio USA	In the end it comes down to belief. I believe because I feel there's "evidence" in the Bible, from NASA, from films, from drawings throughout history, and because no one can prove that UFOs don't exist. Others disbelieve because the "evidence" is sketchy and one can interpret the "evidence" any way they wish, thus I may see "grays" someone may see shadows and unclear markings, I may read in the Bible, an interview, etc and interpret things one way, someone else may interpret another (go figure). I can say that I believe why would the "aliens" want to make themselves known when we are still so gung ho to kill each other. Yet, that doesn't mean they aren't interested and not watching. Or perhaps, we are an off breed and a lab example, and much like we treat our experiments they watch us closely. Perhaps, they have made themselves known and the leaders are slowly integrating the idea into society. If they just "appear" and say "we come in peace", they may get killed, our religious foundations would crumble, our oil based economy would die (not that that is a bad thing but it should happen naturally and be phased out), etc. So in the end, much like religion and "GOD" one can only base one's belief by faith. __________________ Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate. I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong. JOHN LENNON (1940-1980) Last edited by pan6467; 08-22-2007 at 11:08 AM.

08-22-2007, 04:29 PM	#18 (permalink)
Racnad Crazy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington State	Let's clarify our language here. UFO stands for "Unidentified Flying Object." So do I beleive that people see flying objects they can't idenfity? Of course I do! (Ironically, if you're certain you've seen Starbuck flying her Viper in from the planet Caprica, you've identified it and it's not a UFO) The question, "Are UFO's spacecraft flown by alien civilizations?" is an entirely different question. Here's some thoughts on this. It is jumping to a conclusion to conclude that if it's not a bird, a plane or a helecopter that it must be an intersteller spaceship. You also have to consider that it might be a rare atmospheric phenomena that is not well understood. Although we've been on this planet a long time, it still gives us surprises. Anyone who says there is or is not intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is speculating. We don't know, and any conclusions on that question depend on what assumptions you are making. If intelligent life does exist it is very rare and technological civilizations are even more rare. The SETI Project has been looking for radiological evidence of alien civilization for for decades and has found nothing so far. While we can't conclude whether or not life exists elsewhere, we can conclude that this neighborhood of the galaxy looks nothing like the visions of Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas. (I'm intrigued by the universe of BSG - other than humans and Cylons no other intelligent life is known - this scenario is more likely.) There has always been a small percentage of people who are fantasy-prone and beleive they are visited by and communicate with non-human beings. But the form these beings take depend on their world-view. In times gone by, people were visited by trolls, elves or faries. While religious people see angles, demons or dead pophets, most people aren't that religous, and no one beleives in faries. But most people for the past few decades do believe that aliens may exist and have seen science fiction TV and movies about them, so it is no coincidence that these people claim to have been visited by greys inspired by X-Files and Close Encounters of the Third Kind. So my answer to "Are we being visited?" is "probably not."