There is no law for the income tax, man beats IRS in court - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

pai mei · 07-17-2007, 11:32 AM

http://www.livefreenow.org/streaming...o_Programs.xml

Quote:

On July 9, 2007, the Louisiana Federal Jury found Attorney Tommy Cryer NOT GUILTY of 2 counts of willful failure to file an income tax return. Tommy had not filed a 1040 Confession Form because he understood and believed that the law does not require Tommy to pay income taxes on his labor. Tommy Cryer ’s instant victory over the IRS is another serious blow to the IRS’ facade of invincibility and exposes the Wizard of Oz nature of the IRS.

Income from labor is not profit, it is fair exchange - time and work for money, it cannot be taxed. Here is a movie which explains the problem better , you will be able to see an IRS agent that says "supreme court decisions don't matter" :
America: Freedom to Fascism

Redlemon · 07-17-2007, 01:20 PM

I didn't want to watch the video, so here's an article from a newspaper (as opposed to an opinion site)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shreveport Times

Local attorney acquitted on federal income tax charges
Cryer stopped filing income taxes more than 10 years ago

July 13, 2007
By Loresha Wilson
ljwilson@gannett.com

A Shreveport attorney who has challenged the government for years on the legality of filing federal income taxes has been acquitted on charges he failed to file returns.

A federal jury unanimously found Tommy Cryer not guilty this week on two misdemeanor counts of failure to file.

And according to Cryer, the prosecution dismissed two felony charges of tax evasion prior to trial.

Attempts by The Times on Thursday to reach U.S. Attorney Donald Washington or Bill Flanagan, first assistant U.S. attorney, were not successful. Calls made to the two were not immediately returned.

"The court could not find a law that makes me liable or makes my revenues taxable," Cryer said. "The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot impose an income tax on anything but the profits and gains. When you work for someone you give your service and labor in exchange for money, so everything you make is not profit or gain. You put something into it."

Cryer was indicted last year on two counts of tax evasion. The indictment alleged he evaded payment of $73,000 in income tax to the Internal Revenue Service during 2000 and 2001.

Cryer created a trust listing himself as the trustee, and received payments of dividends, interest and stock income to that trust, according to the indictment. He also was accused of concealing his receipt of the sources of income from the IRS by failing to file a tax return on behalf of that trust.

"I determined that my personal earnings were not 100 percent profits, some were income," Cryer said. "I refuse to file, I refuse to pay unless they can show me I have a lawful reason to pay."

"What I earned was my own personal labor. I am giving something in exchange. I'm giving my property and I don't belong to anyone else."

Cryer says he stopped filing returns more than 10 years ago after he investigated claims that income tax was a sham. He contends the law doesn't actually tax personal earning.

I'm pretty surprised. I thought this sort of thing had been tested extensively in the past. Also surprised that Google News only gives 3 hits, whereas there are many opinion blogs that are all over it.

MiSo · 07-17-2007, 11:25 PM

so uh... why am i still paying taxes?
so can anyone decide to stop paying taxes? i don't get it.
(didn't watch the video... too long)

dksuddeth · 07-21-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiSo

so uh... why am i still paying taxes?
so can anyone decide to stop paying taxes? i don't get it.
(didn't watch the video... too long)

would imagine that you're still paying taxes because the company you work for is taking them out before they pay you.

want to avoid paying taxes? don't do W2 work.

Cynthetiq · 07-21-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

would imagine that you're still paying taxes because the company you work for is taking them out before they pay you.

want to avoid paying taxes? don't do W2 work.

Not to mention be willing to go to the mat in order to protect your beliefs.

Willravel · 07-21-2007, 11:05 AM

The nice thing is, the more precedent from cases like the above, the easier it will be to go to the mat. I haven't decided whether I'm going to stop or not. I had already considered reducing the amount I was paying so as to protest the war. Double protest? This is tempting.

The_Dunedan · 07-21-2007, 12:05 PM

Check out IRS vs Kuglin for more fun; Vernice Kuglin got to keep nearly $1,000,000 in "owed" back taxes after a multi-year court battle because the IRS was simply unable to produce the law authorizing them to collect taxes from her. This was about three years ago, I think. Vaious people have had various levels of success fighting the IRS; it all comes down to

A: The judge. If the judge is half honest and allows the arguement to proceed at all, that's half the battle. Most judges, however, won't even allow a Constitutional or legal arguement in any criminal case, only an arguement on the facts of the case itself.

B: The paperwork. People who choose to use document filings to lawfully not pay Income Taxes walk a veeeeery thin line. One word out of place, and you're in jail, just ask Larkin Rose or Irwin Schiff. This is why a lot of folks prefer to simply not pay and then take the "Well, show me the law!" tack in court if/when they get caught.

Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Ed and Elaine Brown, up in New Hampshire, are a good example of what happens when it doesn't work. They're probably going to get WACOed over this and have already lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets..."going to the mat" indeed.*

*The good news is that the odds of actually getting nailed are quite slim, given the HUGE numbers of people (60,000,000+ according to the IRS's own figures) who don't file or don't pay every year and the small number of IRS-CID agents available.

MSD · 08-10-2007, 12:39 PM

It would cost me more than I make in a year to go to court over a few hundred dollars in taxes. This is interesting, but I wouldn't be willing to make myself a test case.

07-17-2007, 11:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
MiSo Insane Join Date: Sep 2004	so uh... why am i still paying taxes? so can anyone decide to stop paying taxes? i don't get it. (didn't watch the video... too long) Last edited by MiSo; 07-17-2007 at 11:41 PM.

07-21-2007, 11:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
Willravel [wil-ruh-VEL] Join Date: Aug 2004	The nice thing is, the more precedent from cases like the above, the easier it will be to go to the mat. I haven't decided whether I'm going to stop or not. I had already considered reducing the amount I was paying so as to protest the war. Double protest? This is tempting. __________________ ɯǝɥʇ ǝʌlos uɐɔ ǝʍ ʇɐɥʇ ǝɔuɐɹouƃı ɥƃnoɹɥʇ ʇou sı ʇı 'sɯǝlqoɹd ǝʇɐǝɹɔ uɐɔ ǝƃpǝlʍouʞ ɟı

07-21-2007, 12:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Addict Join Date: Jul 2003	Check out IRS vs Kuglin for more fun; Vernice Kuglin got to keep nearly $1,000,000 in "owed" back taxes after a multi-year court battle because the IRS was simply unable to produce the law authorizing them to collect taxes from her. This was about three years ago, I think. Vaious people have had various levels of success fighting the IRS; it all comes down to A: The judge. If the judge is half honest and allows the arguement to proceed at all, that's half the battle. Most judges, however, won't even allow a Constitutional or legal arguement in any criminal case, only an arguement on the facts of the case itself. B: The paperwork. People who choose to use document filings to lawfully not pay Income Taxes walk a veeeeery thin line. One word out of place, and you're in jail, just ask Larkin Rose or Irwin Schiff. This is why a lot of folks prefer to simply not pay and then take the "Well, show me the law!" tack in court if/when they get caught. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Ed and Elaine Brown, up in New Hampshire, are a good example of what happens when it doesn't work. They're probably going to get WACOed over this and have already lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets..."going to the mat" indeed.* *The good news is that the odds of actually getting nailed are quite slim, given the HUGE numbers of people (60,000,000+ according to the IRS's own figures) who don't file or don't pay every year and the small number of IRS-CID agents available.

08-10-2007, 12:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
MSD Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: CT	It would cost me more than I make in a year to go to court over a few hundred dollars in taxes. This is interesting, but I wouldn't be willing to make myself a test case.