lktknow

Hello everyone, this is my first post here in this forum, and I registered mainly to get opinions on something that happened, that to me is unexplainable.
I was at a ribbon store in our area, the store is fairly small, but was extremely crowded on this day.
The ribbon is on rolls suspended from the ceiling, and everyone just measures out their own ribbon, and pays up front. The reason I am explaining that, is so you know that the people are in close proximity to one another.
To the left of me there was an older gentleman measuring ribbon, when 3 girls walked by us, one of the girls was pregnant, she looked to be in her 20's. The other two girls were in their early teens.
When they passed the gentleman, he said to the pregnant one, "your little one just said "Hi, my name is Josephine" to me". One of the younger girls said, "Oh my God, that's what your going to name the baby" . The pregnant one looked at the man, and said, "Excuse me"?..he said, "When you passed by me just now, your little one raised her hand, and said "Hi my name is Josephine" . He turned back and started measuring his ribbon again.
The three girls were staring at the man, but then turned and started looking at ribbon. The pregnant ones hands seemed to be shaking as she took the ribbon in them, it sent a chill up my spine. This all happened in a matter of minutes. The pregnant girl was visibly upset, and the three of them turned to leave, but she went to the man, and asked, "Did she say anything else to you?", and he said "no, she just raised her hand to me when you walked past, and said "Hi, my name is Josephine, that's all". and the three girls left.
I have only posted this in one other forum, but the responses I received were not too gratifying. Of course, I don't know what it would take to make a response satisfying, but just wanted a bit more input than what I have received so far.
Most of the results in the other forum went about explaining how this was very logically explainable. Such as the man had seen the three girls at an earlier time and overheard their conversation, and decided to have some fun with them. Which is a perfectly explainable reason for him knowing the information, but if you had of been there, you would have been able to sense, that it was not true. The man and the girls had never laid eyes on one another.
I would like some feedback on what your opinions would be on this situation.
I have been lurking here in the forum a while now, and I would value any and all responses, because from what I have read, you all seem to be, not only intelligent, but also broadminded enough to step outside of the box, and offer your opinions

tecoyah

You are correct, this cannot be explained....but, that does not mean its not real. Hell, I burned myself last week on flame, and no one fully understands it yet I will tell you right now....it's real.

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shesus

I don't discount anything. We only use a small portion of our mind. The other portion that most people don't use is unknown. Who's to say that this guy doesn't have psychic tendencies? People see auras. People predict the future. People have previous lives that they can recall memories from. Why can't this guy have a greeting from a fetus? It would definitely disturb me to hear that. It's very random.

The cynical part of me was thinking what yo posted about the logical explanation. He may be a lonely, strange old man that overheard a conversation and wanted to have some fun.

People believe what they want to believe. Only he knows for sure what happened.

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Ustwo

No they don't, but if they did they can go to this website and claim a prize.

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

You know, if I ever overhear what someone is going to name their baby, I know how I'm going to have some fun

Excellent, YOU are psychic too!

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albania

That's somewhat misleading. We only use a small portion of our mind at any given time. Think of your brain as a garage holding a bunch of tools. Say you're trying to cut a piece of wood. It wouldn't make much sense to use all the tools in your garage at the same time now would it? Same thing with the brain. We use pretty much all of our brain just not all of it at the same time.

To the OP: As for your experience, I don't know how anyone can give you any satisfactory response. There are people who will disagree with your implied conclusion, others who won't. In the end, neither will give you any more insight into the sittuation. It's up to you to make what you will of it.

MSD

That the overheard them and decided to fuck with them is a lot more believable than the idea that he actually communicated with an in utero child.

ngdawg

I am in agreement here. Normally, I believe in what could be blanketly(new word?) be called 'universal energies', but this guy was just being a putz playing head games.
You'd be surprised what random people will pick up in passing and run with it...

analog

That's incredible!

You mean to tell me there's a store that just sells ribbons?

But seriously... when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation- and not just reasonable, but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy.

fresnelly

Even accepting that the gentleman is psychic, his exchange with the fetus is way, way out there.

That simple greeting implies the fetus has an understanding of lanuguage, self, gender identity (to accept the mother's girl name choice), social ettiquette, a fully formed outgoing personality, trust in strangers and to top it all off, a psychic connection with the Mother not to mention an ability to recognize and comprehend the external man and his thoughts.

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lktknow

I truly appreciate all the responses. Albania was right when they said no one would be able to give me a satisfactory answer, and I more or less knew that going in, I just wanted honest opinions on what you all would think of the possibility of it truly happening. But in the end, I will have to make of it what I will, like they said.
I liked what Ustwo said about "Excellent, YOU are psychic too", very apropos.
I am also in agreement with the majority of the responses, as far as the guy possibly overhearing the information at an earlier time, even though I "felt" as if they had never laid eyes on one another. I think it was because of the complete nonchalance of the guy who said it, and he resembled nothing like what you would expect a jokester to look like. (course, what does a practical joker look like?) He was a man in his late 50's early 60's, and from my brief encounter , he just seemed rather serene, or?? Right before the three girls came in, he had asked to borrow my pen to write his ribbon lengths down. We didn't speak, I just handed him the pen, and he thanked me, and gave it back when he was done.
When all is said and done about this subject, it seems like fresnelly hit the nail on the head, and it seems a person with any common sense would logic it out the way they explained it, and realize , it just couldn't happen. I think it was analog that said "when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, and not just reasonable but downright likely- I will take that over a physically impossible and improbable/unproven psychological phenomenon like telepathy."
again, thank you for the input.
marlene

Johnny Rotten

Well, we only use 10-15% of our brain at one time. All of it gets used at one point or another, depending on the stimuli.

It's kind of like the hard drive in your computer. It holds a ton of data, but only a portion of that data needs to be read at a given moment. Unless you're playing a video game or rendering something, the overwhelming majority of the system is idling.

The mind has evolved to make the most efficient use of energy and storage. There aren't any areas that never get used.

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DaveOrion

I'm surprised you weren't the first in line to debunk another myth. Do you ever get tired of this ....nevermind. You really should live at the skeptics board, your true home.


Simple answer Marrrlee, ESP.

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Martian

There's a reason that most illusionists are confirmed skeptics. Guys like James Randi, Criss Angel and going back to Harry Houdini are all able to do things that, to an uninformed observer seem completely unexplainable. And there's always a rational explanation, even if the observer never knows what it is.

The rational explanations are boring, because they attribute everything to the mundane. They're also always right. Having dabbled in mentalism myself, I've seen that 'how the fuck did you do/know that?; look, and it can be quite powerful (as well as a great way to pick up, but that's beside the point). The technical term for what is most probably going on here is what's referred to as a hot reading. This is in contrast to the much more common cold reading; hot readings are harder to do, because they require some foreknowledge on the mark. All the same, it's not difficult to imagine that this gent overheard this expectant mother speaking with one of her other daughters out on the street and followed them into the store specifically to have a bit of a game and get that reaction.

That said, believe whatever makes you happiest. You're never going to get a complete answer short of tracking the old guy down and that seems a bit extreme.

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Some were born to sing the blues
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Ustwo

Yes that is a simple answer

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ratbastid

Criss Angel is now doing a "who's got psy powers" American Idol knockoff show, co-hosting with Uri Geller. For the love of all that is good, PLEASE PLEASE don't utter his name in the same sentence with Randi and Houdini.

This old guy might have the ability to speak to the unborn, but Occam's Razor prefers that he overheard little proto-Josephine's name, or is the uncle of the brother of somebody who works in her OB's office, or something like that.

DaveOrion

Hey, the old guy may have overheard something or he may actually have ESP. To say that the mundane boring explanation is always right is completely wrong. It is not always right, there are things that are inexplicable. Once again, just to be clear,Occam's Razor states that the simplest explanation tends to be correct, but not always.

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The world cares very little about what you know; it is what you are able to do that really matters.

ratbastid

Which is why I said Occam prefers the mundane explanation. I originally wrote "demands", but revised it for the very reason you cite.

Ustwo

Of course if you can speak to the unborn this will REALLY screw up the pro-abortion crowd

Not only are the unborn thinking humans, they can hold up their hand and even know their name!

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Nimetic

Hmm.

But at the same time... sometimes people are predictable. We were walking along one day and went past some young teenage girls who'd obviously drunk more coffee than was good for them. They were chattering wildly.

I turned to my parter and whispered 'oh my god', in the melodramatic American sitcom fashion.

A half-second later... a loud "Oh... my.... god...." was heard from the girls we'd passed.

So I'd managed to predict their next statement : >

Martian

I will amend that then, if you want to be pedantic, and say that in every known instance of seemingly psychic or paranormal activity that has ever been investigated properly using scientific method a rational explanation has been found; in those where no rational explanation exists a proper scientific inquiry was not conducted, despite what those investigating may have claimed or even believed.

And you're correct that the principle of parsimony (popularly known as Occam's Razor) does not ever demand anything. If you read my prior post carefully, you will find that I did not mention said principle at any point, although it certainly is applicable here:

Applying that here, we find that of our two scenarios, the idea that the old duffer obtained his information through an unknown but logically explainable means requires one assumption: that he overheard or otherwise came across this information in some way connected to his young victim. Our second scenario, that the man is psychic, requires several assumptions; it requires us to assume first that the man possesses an ability that has not been shown to exist, despite decades of debate and mountains of research performed by a number of independent organizations, (which is two assumptions in and of itself), that this ability allows the man to communicate with a foetus in utero which, depending on it's stage of development, may not even be capable of independent thought yet and that it somehow allows the man to form a common basis of communication with the foetus through which it may transmit not only ideas, but actual words. It also requires us to assume that the foetus knows what it's mother plans on naming it, which suggests a level of cognitive capability beyond that of an actual newborn infant, whom we must assume is more developed than an as-yet unborn one. In light of this disparity in unknowns, the probability of this being a legitimate instance of psychic ability is vanishingly small; it's possible in the same sense that it's possible that Tom Cruise is an alien. Or less so even, I'd say.

For the record, I did actually debate with myself on whether or not to stick an 'almost' before the criticized 'always.' It was a conscious decision on my part not to do so, because I will not support belief in something that has not been shown to exist. I find it mind-boggling that some individuals will claim that there's no such thing as an Easter bunny but that ESP happens every day, despite the fact that the body of evidence for each is basically identical (all the more telling when one considers that there has never been, to my knowledge, any scientific inquiries into the existence of said lagomorph).

So yes; while I cannot prove that this was not a case of psychic ability, I feel confident in taking it as granted that it was not. Lest this was missed before, I will point out again that I have dabbled in illusionism myself in the past including mentalism. I have previously invoked through perfectly ordinary means a reaction identical to the one described above. These things happen. Psychic powers, according to every shred of evidence we have on the matter, do not.

ratbastid: Just goes to show that maybe I should turn on my television more often; knowing that he would associate with a hack like Geller causes me to lose a great deal of respect for Criss Angel.

__________________
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

- Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

ratbastid

I take this back completely. Observe the following video of the LIVE throwdown that happened on "Phenomenon" last night, when Criss Angel challenged a psy-claiming contender AND Uri Geller to tell him the contents of an envelope from his pocket.

Martian

I burst out laughing after the 'possession' began. You'd think the all-knowing spirits would be able to convey information without inducing a grand mal seizure.

Also, how is asking someone to prove the abilities they claim to have bigotry in any way, shape or form? Seems like sort of an extreme reaction to me.

__________________
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

- Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

ratbastid

Well, it was an obvious deflection, just like the "hypocrite" copy that surrounds that YouTube video. It seems like a bad idea to post a picture of you obviously behaving like a fraudulent jackass, and then point out that others are hypocrites for also being borderline fraudulent jackasses.

Ustwo