The Church of Satan - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

Miss Mango · 05-30-2008, 11:03 PM

Does this seem like something you would get into?

Hmmmm...very interesting read! I really had no idea what Satanism was all about. Its actually more rational and realistic than I had previously thought. I found that I do agree w/most of the philosophy. What I like is how they acknowledge natural human emotions and the lack of guilt associated w/feeling and acting on these emotions.

But Satanism makes me nervous in how self-centered it is. The bit about it being ok to put curses on people and that there is no white or black magic, just magic. I think thats crap. I believe in Karma, but obviously these folks dont care about Karma.

Still, if theyre trying so hard to be the anti-religions religion theyve already shot themselves in the foot.

But I also appreciate how they acknowledge the human need for ceremony or ritual. I remember talking to a friend who at one time wanted to be a neurosurgeon. Among her readings she learned that the human brain has a need for religious experience. And I found this cool article on wiki if youd like to read into that!

Thoughts? Opinions?

JumpinJesus · 05-30-2008, 11:25 PM

I disagree with any organized religion, even if its purpose is to piss off Christians. In my view, organized religion's sole purpose - regardless of denomination - is control.

And one of their governing rules is "Do not harm little children." What kind of self-respecting satanist gives a damn about little children?

Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party. Or maybe it's something else completely.

Willravel · 05-30-2008, 11:25 PM

Satan is a theistic character. Usually Satanism refers to the worship of that character. I'm not sure how a hedonistic atheist could call him or herself a satanist.

Tully Mars · 05-31-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

I disagree with any organized religion, even if its purpose is to piss off Christians. In my view, organized religion's sole purpose - regardless of denomination - is control.

And separating people from their cash.

Baraka_Guru · 05-31-2008, 07:48 AM

Will, it's quite simple. A hedonistic atheist merely has to adopt Satanism as a philosophy, picking and choosing the elements that work best as a cohesive whole. This is what virtually every other atheist has done (or has to do) with other religious beliefs or philosophical systems. Atheists do not create a vacuum, nor do they live in one. Most Western atheists I would think base their morality on Judeo-Christian values. There are some who veer into other directions. Satanism could very well be one of them. You don't need to believe in Lucifer to adopt what is perceived as his beliefs and mandates.

robot_parade · 05-31-2008, 08:52 AM

I can't stand those guys. Back in college when I worked at the local kinko's, the local priest (or whatever) of the church of satan would bring in his hand-drawn tentacle porn and church bulletin for us to copy. No big deal. Until he came in on the day this new mind-blowingly hot chick's first day of work. She quit the next day.

Nice guy other than that, but still...

LoganSnake · 05-31-2008, 09:37 AM

I found Anthon LaVey's Satanic Bible to be a very interesting read, actually.

Also, in response to the OP, why would they believe in Karma? It's an Indic belief, so why would the affiliate themselves with other religions?

MSD · 05-31-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Satan is a theistic character. Usually Satanism refers to the worship of that character. I'm not sure how a hedonistic atheist could call him or herself a satanist.

LaVey admitted that it's mostly to draw in the anti-Christian crowd and gain notoriety. My brother has copies of the Satanic Bible and The Satanic Rituals. One of these days we're going to get drunk and try to summon Cthulhu, and probably incorporate some of the stuff into our Black Metal-style recordings for laughs.

These days, most of the people who are part of LaVey's original church are white supremacists.

Willravel · 05-31-2008, 12:17 PM

So it's like Flying Spaghetti Monster meets people who may be social pariahs?

Miss Mango · 05-31-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

These days, most of the people who are part of LaVey\'s original church are white supremacists.

Nu-uh! really? I wasnt aware of that...

MSD · 06-01-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Mango

Nu-uh! really? I wasnt aware of that...

In my experience and from what I've heard from a lot of other people. The term "satanist" is thrown around pretty loosely these days, though, and there aren't a whole lot still involved with the original church. Most of the "satanists" out there are either loosely basing their "religion" on LaVey's ramblings and taking up a reactionary stance to their upbringing.

Miss Mango · 06-02-2008, 11:07 AM

I also think its rather silly that it costs $200 to *join* the religion and receive a membership card... This isnt Sams Club.

Tully Mars · 06-02-2008, 11:11 AM

Meh, most religions seem to be aimed at parting people from their cash. Least these folks give you a wallet card.

JumpinJesus · 06-02-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Mango

This isnt Sams Club.

Are you absolutely sure? Have you seen some of the people who shop there? Sam's Club ain't no Costco.

Crack · 06-02-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

The Nine Satanic Statements outline what "Satan" represents in the Church of Satan.

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years

Not that bad actually...

and

Quote:

The Nine Satanic Sins

1. Stupidity
2. Pretentiousness
3. Solipsism
4. Self-deceit
5. Herd Conformity
6. Lack of Perspective
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8. Counterproductive Pride
9. Lack of Aesthetics

I kinda like that...

JumpinJesus · 06-02-2008, 11:48 PM

Lack of aesthetics? Is the church of Lucifer run by Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?

Crack · 06-03-2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Lack of aesthetics? Is the church of Lucifer run by Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?

Miss Mango · 06-12-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganSnake

Also, in response to the OP, why would they believe in Karma? Its an Indic belief, so why would the affiliate themselves with other religions?

Good point. I guess I was just trying to say that in my belief system, these guys are fukt because whatever you put out comes back to you. In the Satanist Hedonistic belief system its all about them. Bad juju in my opinion. So really, there is no argument here, just my own perspective.

Seer666 · 06-13-2008, 02:04 AM

I've read the satanic bible cover to cover. An interesting read. LaVey was a very smart man witha very bad attitude (coming from me that says something) Like all religions, 99% of it is crap. The one line in that whole book that I agree with whole heartedly is "Turn the other cheek nay, smite with hip and thigh, for self preservation is the highest law". A few good points and insights here and there, but mostly, it's just about pissing off the christians. Which is something, admittedly, I can get behind.

debaser · 06-22-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Lack of aesthetics? Is the church of Lucifer run by Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?

This made a small amount of beer come out of my nose.

Baraka_Guru · 06-22-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Lack of aesthetics? Is the church of Lucifer run by Queer Eye for the Straight Guy?

There isn't much aesthetic going on in Queer Eye....

Oh, and I doubt Satanism is a product of the gay agenda.

sadistikdreams · 06-22-2008, 10:32 PM

Speaking of Satanism,

Sammy Davis Jr. was a Satanist.

Baraka_Guru · 06-23-2008, 05:16 AM

Have you ever seen that man dance? Did you think that was a God-given talent?!

roachboy · 06-23-2008, 05:17 PM

hey! why would folk not find anoton le vey to be funny?
i think he's great: you want to be Naughty and make your mom really mad--be a satanist.
o yeah, and you should pay to do it. making your mom mad ain't cheap.
and besides, it's hard to keep being Naughty--things change---in 2008, you might have to become a white supremacist AND a satanist--back in the old days when straight society was more uptight, making your mom mad wasn't so hard--but now...what can you do?

it just gets harder and harder.
marcuse was right.

i was going to say something about cthulu, but a friend of mine got cthulu plush toys and put them on a piano i was playing during a performance and it made me feel all charlemagne palestine, so i don't associate cthulu with being naughty any more, but only with cute purple multi-armed plush toys.

but the way i figure it, if you're going to head down this road, you might as well join the oto. same ideas but better props and cooler rituals. and mom won't like it,

Datalyss · 06-25-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Satan is a theistic character. Usually Satanism refers to the worship of that character.

Not in LaVeyan Satanism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will

I'm not sure how a hedonistic atheist could call him or herself a satanist.

Because both LaVeyan Satanists and Atheists don't believe in [i]any/i] type of deity.

"We need more athists...and nothing will get you there faster than reading the damn bible..." Penn Jillette

Zodijackyl · 07-03-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seer666

A few good points and insights here and there, but mostly, it's just about pissing off the christians. Which is something, admittedly, I can get behind.

I agree, his writing is on par with a decent internet troll who can write about as well as Lovecraft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

LaVey admitted that it's mostly to draw in the anti-Christian crowd and gain notoriety. My brother has copies of the Satanic Bible and The Satanic Rituals. One of these days we're going to get drunk and try to summon Cthulhu, and probably incorporate some of the stuff into our Black Metal-style recordings for laughs.

Page 197 of The Satanic Rituals: The Call To Cthulhu

Principal Participant: My brother and sisters of the ancient blood ... the great void of the dark waters and shrieking winds where we lived in ages past...
All: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
...
All: KRAKEN - POSEIDEN - SABAZIOUS - TYPHOS - DAGON - SETHEH - NEPTUNE - LEVIATHAN - MIDGARD - CTHULHU! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. I'a Cthulhu!
[The figure of Cthulhu appears.]

I don't think I really need to comment about this, but stupidity, pretentiousness, self-deceit. and counterproductive pride are all satanic sins. Teaching that you can summon this ancient being that was invented in the 20th century by Lovecraft does not help their case.

Recent Church of Satan news from their official website:
June 29 - Theory and practice clarification regarding drug use
June 23 - RIP George Carlin
June 20 - Summer Solstice and...

Is this really as important as religious doctrine? The ninth satanic sin is "Lack of aesthetics".

On this same news page I read about the Church of Vrilology giving a rune chanting workshop. A quick look at their website made me thinking of them as the Church of VriLOLogy: http://www.vrilology.org/

Concerning the white supremacist claims, I can say that LaVey did record a rendition of "Dixie" for his 1995 album "Satan Takes A Holiday".

My greatest hope for the Church of Satan is that they don't take themselves seriously.

05-30-2008, 11:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Miss Mango Psycho Join Date: Nov 2006	The Church of Satan Does this seem like something you would get into? Hmmmm...very interesting read! I really had no idea what Satanism was all about. Its actually more rational and realistic than I had previously thought. I found that I do agree w/most of the philosophy. What I like is how they acknowledge natural human emotions and the lack of guilt associated w/feeling and acting on these emotions. But Satanism makes me nervous in how self-centered it is. The bit about it being ok to put curses on people and that there is no white or black magic, just magic. I think thats crap. I believe in Karma, but obviously these folks dont care about Karma. Still, if theyre trying so hard to be the anti-religions religion theyve already shot themselves in the foot. But I also appreciate how they acknowledge the human need for ceremony or ritual. I remember talking to a friend who at one time wanted to be a neurosurgeon. Among her readings she learned that the human brain has a need for religious experience. And I found this cool article on wiki if youd like to read into that! Thoughts? Opinions?

05-30-2008, 11:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Abuse Your Illusions Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago	I disagree with any organized religion, even if its purpose is to piss off Christians. In my view, organized religion's sole purpose - regardless of denomination - is control. And one of their governing rules is "Do not harm little children." What kind of self-respecting satanist gives a damn about little children? Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party. Or maybe it's something else completely. __________________ I thought you were leaving.

05-30-2008, 11:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel [wil-ruh-VEL] Join Date: Aug 2004	Satan is a theistic character. Usually Satanism refers to the worship of that character. I'm not sure how a hedonistic atheist could call him or herself a satanist. __________________ ɯǝɥʇ ǝʌlos uɐɔ ǝʍ ʇɐɥʇ ǝɔuɐɹouƃı ɥƃnoɹɥʇ ʇou sı ʇı 'sɯǝlqoɹd ǝʇɐǝɹɔ uɐɔ ǝƃpǝlʍouʞ ɟı

05-31-2008, 07:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru In the 6th percentile Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto	Will, it's quite simple. A hedonistic atheist merely has to adopt Satanism as a philosophy, picking and choosing the elements that work best as a cohesive whole. This is what virtually every other atheist has done (or has to do) with other religious beliefs or philosophical systems. Atheists do not create a vacuum, nor do they live in one. Most Western atheists I would think base their morality on Judeo-Christian values. There are some who veer into other directions. Satanism could very well be one of them. You don't need to believe in Lucifer to adopt what is perceived as his beliefs and mandates. __________________ "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. [...] In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer." —"Politics and the English Language," George Orwell "Humankind cannot bear very much reality." —"Burnt Norton," Four Quartets, T. S. Eliot

05-31-2008, 09:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Cake Town	I found Anthon LaVey's Satanic Bible to be a very interesting read, actually. Also, in response to the OP, why would they believe in Karma? It's an Indic belief, so why would the affiliate themselves with other religions? __________________ Without a universal law there is no gravity. Without the gravity there is no atmosphere. Without an atmosphere there is no chance at life. And with no chance at life I don’t exist. Last edited by LoganSnake; 05-31-2008 at 09:51 AM.

05-31-2008, 08:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
robot_parade Addict Join Date: Apr 2003	I can't stand those guys. Back in college when I worked at the local kinko's, the local priest (or whatever) of the church of satan would bring in his hand-drawn tentacle porn and church bulletin for us to copy. No big deal. Until he came in on the day this new mind-blowingly hot chick's first day of work. She quit the next day. Nice guy other than that, but still...

05-31-2008, 12:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
Willravel [wil-ruh-VEL] Join Date: Aug 2004	So it's like Flying Spaghetti Monster meets people who may be social pariahs? __________________ ɯǝɥʇ ǝʌlos uɐɔ ǝʍ ʇɐɥʇ ǝɔuɐɹouƃı ɥƃnoɹɥʇ ʇou sı ʇı 'sɯǝlqoɹd ǝʇɐǝɹɔ uɐɔ ǝƃpǝlʍouʞ ɟı

06-02-2008, 11:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
Miss Mango Psycho Join Date: Nov 2006	I also think its rather silly that it costs $200 to join the religion and receive a membership card... This isnt Sams Club.

06-02-2008, 11:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
Tully Mars Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yucatan	Meh, most religions seem to be aimed at parting people from their cash. Least these folks give you a wallet card. __________________ Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club People are always bitching about getting what they deserve... I think if they did they'd be greatly disappointed. Me

06-02-2008, 11:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Abuse Your Illusions Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago	Lack of aesthetics? Is the church of Lucifer run by Queer Eye for the Straight Guy? __________________ I thought you were leaving.

06-13-2008, 02:04 AM	#19 (permalink)
Seer666 Don't play the race card on me. I voted Obama. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tucson. Home again for good.	I've read the satanic bible cover to cover. An interesting read. LaVey was a very smart man witha very bad attitude (coming from me that says something) Like all religions, 99% of it is crap. The one line in that whole book that I agree with whole heartedly is "Turn the other cheek nay, smite with hip and thigh, for self preservation is the highest law". A few good points and insights here and there, but mostly, it's just about pissing off the christians. Which is something, admittedly, I can get behind. __________________ Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

06-22-2008, 10:32 PM	#22 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Seattle.	Speaking of Satanism, Sammy Davis Jr. was a Satanist. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang

06-23-2008, 05:16 AM	#23 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru In the 6th percentile Moderator Join Date: May 2006 Location: Toronto	Have you ever seen that man dance? Did you think that was a God-given talent?! __________________ "The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. [...] In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer." —"Politics and the English Language," George Orwell "Humankind cannot bear very much reality." —"Burnt Norton," Four Quartets, T. S. Eliot

06-23-2008, 05:17 PM	#24 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chicago	hey! why would folk not find anoton le vey to be funny? i think he's great: you want to be Naughty and make your mom really mad--be a satanist. o yeah, and you should pay to do it. making your mom mad ain't cheap. and besides, it's hard to keep being Naughty--things change---in 2008, you might have to become a white supremacist AND a satanist--back in the old days when straight society was more uptight, making your mom mad wasn't so hard--but now...what can you do? it just gets harder and harder. marcuse was right. i was going to say something about cthulu, but a friend of mine got cthulu plush toys and put them on a piano i was playing during a performance and it made me feel all charlemagne palestine, so i don't associate cthulu with being naughty any more, but only with cute purple multi-armed plush toys. but the way i figure it, if you're going to head down this road, you might as well join the oto. same ideas but better props and cooler rituals. and mom won't like it, __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-23-2008 at 05:21 PM.