ipollux

I want to believe (thank you preacher), but I just can't. I think that humans have great imaginations. I think that Jesus could have been based on something real at one point (genetic anomoly?), but now its just an urban legend.

I'd like to think its just some hermit up in the clouds...

LoganSnake

Might have been a real human being at some point in time. No way the son of god, prophet or what have you.

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Without a universal law there is no gravity. Without the gravity there is no atmosphere. Without an atmosphere there is no chance at life. And with no chance at life I don’t exist.

SecretMethod70

I'm not sure if I follow what you're asking.

Are you asking if the person of Jesus who the stories are (loosely) based on existed? In that case, I would say the chances are very good that he did.

Or are you asking if Jesus as described in the Christian bible existed and continues to exist? In that case, it's all a matter of faith, but there's no logical reason to believe that being ever existed.

The historical Jesus and the mythological Jesus are two different entities, and neither needs the other to be viable.

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Willravel

There's very little extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus. If you don't believe in the Bible, you don't really have any reason to believe that it was based on a Jesus. It was probably just a combination of old myths and a particular man named Apollonius of Tyana (virgin birth, healer, raised dea, walk through walls, persecuted, brought to trial, crucified, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven... sound familiar?).

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JumpinJesus

I believe Jesus existed. I believe he was a buddha. Do I believe it is the immaculately concepted son of the almighty? No.

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I thought you were leaving.

Baraka_Guru

I think Christianity is over 90% appropriation of pagan myths, practices, and beliefs.

Jesus may have existed. I don't see why not. But he only exists now as a cultural phenomenon. Even Aristotle exists, and Shakespeare, in similar fashions. They are a part of our culture and will have meaning for a very long time.

I don't believe in deities.

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"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. [...] In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer."

—"Politics and the English Language," George Orwell

"Humankind cannot bear very much reality."

—"Burnt Norton," Four Quartets, T. S. Eliot

mixedmedia

I could answer the poll question if you used the word 'did' instead of 'does.'

do I think he lived? yes
do I think he lives on? no

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus

ipollux

For the most part, I agree with everyone. I meant the question to be does he still exist now as a deity of sorts, which I do not believe. As for did he once exist, perhaps, but I have no way to know for sure and feel like it doesn't really matter.

I kind of feel the same way about dinosaurs ...

RetroGunslinger

I agree with the general consensus. There is simply no valid reason to believe in Jesus as anything more than (possibly) some guy with one hell of a cult following.

__________________
To summarize:

It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

The best porn is gun porn.

It's only rape if the bitch lives.

Suffer For Your Art

JumpinJesus

You should see the people outside our apartment.

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I thought you were leaving.

Milkyway

I believe. I seem to be of the minority, but that's cool with me. I have felt Him in a way I could never fully describe with words.

I am a very sexual and very spiritual person, although many people would say that's an oxymoron.

I cannot deny what I have felt, what I have seen, the personal miracles of my own life; but I do know that there are people all over the world that "feel" their Gods in a spiritual way, that have witnessed "miracles" and believe in their religion because of these things.

I will make a statement that many would say contradicts Christianity: I believe that there is a God and that anyone truly seeking God will find Him/Her, I believe that only way for ME to reach God is through Jesus Christ, however I also believe that others may reach God through other means.

Am I correct, I don't know, but I do know I will follow the inner feelings that I have and trust them as they have kept me safe for years and given me peace at my darkest hours.

Without my belief in Jesus I can guarantee I would have taken my own life a long time ago, if that's the only purpose He serves, than it is a worthwhile one, IMO.

You seriously don't think dinosaurs exist? What's up with that?

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Yes you can get off on the same sexual experience for 24 full hours!!!!!

ipollux

As for did he once exist, perhaps, but I have no way to know for sure and feel like it doesn't really matter.

Meaning, they probably did, but it doesn't really matter to me. In other words, as far as Jesus or the Dinosaurs ever existing, I don't care.

Milkyway

ipollux:

I see, I miss read.

Yeah, I don't think dinosaurs matter much to me either or at all actually, except that you have to learn about them in school, but I digress.

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Yes you can get off on the same sexual experience for 24 full hours!!!!!

Medusa

This pretty much sums it up for me. I believe he existed and was probably smarter than the average bear. I don't believe in the immaculate conception, the resurrection, or the turning water into wine stuff.

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Sun Tzu

To me the Bible has a much historical truth as the Odyessy written by Homer.

Jesus = Santa Clause . . . IMO

The idea of God in general regardless of which religion has become dangerous and threatens humanity as a whole. Not from the idea of God itself, but the actions motivating perceived "truth".

**EDIT*** I had a video posted showing that was shot by a British film crew in Israel in 2006. While the video itself was extremely interesting; it had a website at the end of it. I did not check out the site in the numerous times I watched the video. I finally did check it out after posting it here. It turned out to be a white supremist / racial hate site. If anyone watched the video and took enough interest to follow to the site, I appologize. That does not represent my views or the point I was making in posting this example.

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None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. -Johann Wolfgang Goethe

ipollux

God is dead, and no one cares. If there is a hell, I'll see you there.

Milkyway

I see your Heresy by Nine Inch Nails

and raise you Closer By Nine Inch Nails

"I wanna f**k you like an animal
My whole existence is flawed
You get me closer to God"

That happens to be one of my favorite songs actually!

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Yes you can get off on the same sexual experience for 24 full hours!!!!!

jorgelito

Yes Jesus is very real.

Thank you.

RetroGunslinger

Wow, Sun Tzu, that video really speaks volumes about how the belief in God (in this case represented by Jesus) can take on numerous, sometimes horrendous faces. Knowing there are people out there like that, be them drunk or not, is really quite frightening and completely ruins any points using the "X population believes in Jesus" argument.

Not that it proves anything about the existence of Christ, just commenting.

__________________
To summarize:

It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

The best porn is gun porn.

It's only rape if the bitch lives.

Suffer For Your Art

ottopilot

I once followed way of the gourd, but now I believe the shoe is the righteous path to salvation.

The scriptures are clear:

"He has given us... his shoe! The shoe is the sign. Let us follow His example. Let us, like Him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot, for this is His sign, that all who follow Him shall do likewise. The shoe is a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance.

Let us gather shoes together! It is a sign that, like Him, we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head!

Give me your shoe! Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us! Take the shoes and follow Him!"

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"All the leaders of groups tend to be frauds. If they were not, it would be impossible for them to retain the allegiance of their dupes" - H.L. Mencken
"continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it." - George Washington on political parties

Poppinjay

Not believing a deity exists makes absolutely no difference to the deity. The idea of a deity is something that does NOT exist, at least in any we can understand.

It's kind of like asking if karma exists.

Or the old joke about religion.

One man asks the other if wants to go to a Sunday service.

The other says, "I don't believe in the church's doctrines".

The first man says, "oh, I've actually SEEN them, I can assure you, they do exist."

Do you believe in homosexual marriage? It's happening in California, so you would be wrong if you didn't.

Do you believe in get quick rich schemes? They exist every day in your e-mail inbox.

Do you believe in corporal punishment? Even some public schools still practice it.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Bill O'Rights

Not so sure about that one.

Corporal punishment may be very much akin to Jesus Christ.
Both existed...at one time...but not any longer.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Poppinjay

Come to the deep south. Misbehave.

Whappity whap.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

RetroGunslinger

Seconded.

__________________
To summarize:

It's a rare pleasure in this world to get your mind fucked. Usually it's just foreplay.

The best porn is gun porn.

It's only rape if the bitch lives.

Suffer For Your Art

ipollux

That's awesome that out of nowhere a coalition of believers voted. Praise god! Hallelujah!

</sarcasm>

Poppinjay

ipollux, don't be sarcastic about believers. I believe, I have, and I have one of them high falootin private college edumacations.

This belief is not at odds with TFP. Halx buit a great community at absolute odds to what I think. Tecoyah and Charlatan and so many others offer such great direction and help at this site that I'd be a fool to dis them. They're great.

What does that have to do with me? Nothing. I think I have some ideas worth expressing, but I'm not the omnipresent force here. Am I happy here? You betcha. Am I responsible for management? No.

Who built your neighborhood?

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet