All praise the water bearer! - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

Crack · 10-18-2007, 10:40 AM

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com scared the shit out of me. There is a thread in Paranoia for the movie, but I wanted to get the take of people who frequent the Philosophy board. On the first part anyways.

here is a summery (that I pulled from a blog which I think accurately describes the film) for those that have not watched the film.

Quote:

The movie suggests that Christianity, the Bible, and Jesus are all based on astrology, Egyptian religious figures, and several other pagan “potpourri”. The story of Jesus’ miracle birth is described as being a plagiarized story from any number of religious gods ie. Horus, Mythra, Krishna, etc. All of these and several others according to the movie had similar miraculous occurances surrounding their birth, life, deaths, and in most cases resurrection. Also, the movie suggests that Jesus never existed and all the stories about him are in fact about astrology. The sun, which is central to ancient astrology, is equated to the story of Jesus in many facets. One of those facets is Jesus is literally God’s Sun. When the sun starts to go through the winter months, food supplies dry up and freeze, and “death” starts to the creep in. This time is a desolate time for ancients and they look to the sun to start ushering in warmer climates so that “life” can begin again. Miraculously

, on December 25th the sun actually starts this climb back higher into the sky. So Jesus, God’s Sun, is born on this date (every year). During this time three stars from Orion’s belt line up with the some sun’s birth. The name of these three stars you may be asking? The Three Kings (Wise Men).

What I wanted to start a discussion on was not the accuracy, but the "plausibility" of the statements that are put forth. Could Christianity be just plagiarized ancient horoscope worship? It would make a lot of sense to me if it were... The part about the "Jesus Fish" being representative of the astrological sign of Pices, and the quote from the bible (by Jesus) about the next messiah that Christians should follow will come bearing water (Aquarius)

It's been a few weeks since I have seen the move so please forgive any missed quotes or misunderstood messages.

Moyaboy · 10-19-2007, 05:01 AM

I need to see this movie now.

But everything you mentioned sounds plausible to me.

Ustwo · 10-19-2007, 08:12 AM

And really it should remain in paranoia.

I always thought everyone who studied religions knew why Christmas was at the end of December.

Plus as an atheist, I think Jesus did exist, I just don't think he was the son of God.

Really this movie is typical conspiracy crap, meant to lead you down its 'logical' path, assuming you are ignorant and will accept what it says at face value.

Its sort of like a poorly written De Vinci code, but still fiction.

Redlemon · 10-19-2007, 08:27 AM

Already in discussion here: Zeitgeist...

roachboy · 10-19-2007, 08:57 AM

on the other hand, christianity is a syncretic institution.
it absorbed all kinds of curious stuff from the contexts it emerged from and which it was tied to. jesus is a type--the wandering holy man--there were other possibilities like appolonius of tyana...practices were drawn from gnostic sects--early christianity legitimated itself in part through the use of magic (see augustine's city of god--the main argument he makes as to why the romans should convert is that christianity has better magic--the outcomes were called miracles, the magicians saints...) so in itself the premise of the film is not surprising--but the attempt to reduce jesus to a function of just one source practice seems to me more difficult than seeing in jesus a composite.

i am kinda interested in this film, though.

Ustwo · 10-19-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

on the other hand, christianity is a syncretic institution.
it absorbed all kinds of curious stuff from the contexts it emerged from and which it was tied to. jesus is a type--the wandering holy man--there were other possibilities like appolonius of tyana...practices were drawn from gnostic sects--early christianity legitimated itself in part through the use of magic (see augustine's city of god--the main argument he makes as to why the romans should convert is that christianity has better magic--the outcomes were called miracles, the magicians saints...) so in itself the premise of the film is not surprising--but the attempt to reduce jesus to a function of just one source practice seems to me more difficult than seeing in jesus a composite.

i am kinda interested in this film, though.

You will love it its, anti-Christianity, 9/11 conspiracy, and international banking slavery all rolled into one crazy ball

Sun Tzu · 10-22-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Really this movie is typical conspiracy crap, meant to lead you down its 'logical' path, assuming you are ignorant and will accept what it says at face value.

Edit

Are you by any chance an avid Sean Hannity and Rush listener?

Shauk · 10-22-2007, 08:20 PM

excellent movie. The astrological comparison was great.

and yeah, 9/11 was an inside job, wtf are you going to do about it? nothing.

just like everyone else.

just like me.

Ustwo · 10-22-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Edit

Are you by any chance an avid Sean Hannity and Rush listener?

I really gotta start making my money off the public at large.

MSD · 10-25-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

and yeah, 9/11 was an inside job, wtf are you going to do about it? nothing.

just like everyone else.

just like me.

I'm going to continue to believe the correct answer to any question is the one that can be logically derived from verifiable evidence rather than than an alternate answer based on tenuous connections, paranoia, misinterpretations of evidence, and wild speculation.

edit: I'm less than two minutes into the narration and it's already the typical conspiracy crap. I seriously doubt that I'll find any redeeming qualities in the film, but I'll try.

edit2: now I'm 8 minutes in and listening to George Carlin talking while a globe spins in the wrong direction. I have my doubts about the veracity or plausibility of a film made by people who can't even check simple facts.

Ustwo · 10-25-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I'm going to continue to believe the correct answer to any question is the one that can be logically derived from verifiable evidence rather than than an alternate answer based on tenuous connections, paranoia, misinterpretations of evidence, and wild speculation.

edit: I'm less than two minutes into the narration and it's already the typical conspiracy crap. I seriously doubt that I'll find any redeeming qualities in the film, but I'll try.

edit2: now I'm 8 minutes in and listening to George Carlin talking while a globe spins in the wrong direction. I have my doubts about the veracity or plausibility of a film made by people who can't even check simple facts.

Frustrating isn't it?

Cynthetiq · 10-25-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I'm going to continue to believe the correct answer to any question is the one that can be logically derived from verifiable evidence rather than than an alternate answer based on tenuous connections, paranoia, misinterpretations of evidence, and wild speculation.

edit: I'm less than two minutes into the narration and it's already the typical conspiracy crap. I seriously doubt that I'll find any redeeming qualities in the film, but I'll try.

edit2: now I'm 8 minutes in and listening to George Carlin talking while a globe spins in the wrong direction. I have my doubts about the veracity or plausibility of a film made by people who can't even check simple facts.

I'm 10 minutes into it, and I see at the top part, ARTIVIST. I guess they don't need to worry about being right about their facts, they can just call it "art"

Shauk · 10-25-2007, 05:54 PM

you guys believe what you want, just like they want you to I suppose.

I was watching it when the shit fell, I called it a demolition before I was even aware it was due to a plane hitting the building because I had just walked up my neighbors stairs and the 1st thing I said was "they're demolishing those buildings?"

seriously, use half a brain.

Ustwo · 10-25-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

you guys believe what you want, just like they want you to I suppose.

I was watching it when the shit fell, I called it a demolition before I was even aware it was due to a plane hitting the building because I had just walked up my neighbors stairs and the 1st thing I said was "they're demolishing those buildings?"

seriously, use half a brain.

Dude, keep this wackjob crap on the board it belongs, your insults are quite laughable. When you get a bit older and figure life out a bit more then come and tell us about using half a brain.

Shauk · 10-25-2007, 07:16 PM

someone's touchy. cruising for moderator action?

I didn't insult you. I disagree with your misguided attempt to believe the path of least pain. you're just as "insulting" with assuming that I'm not old enough to "figure life out"

assuming I could take what you say with half an ounce of seriousness anyway.

The_Jazz · 10-26-2007, 06:48 AM

Everyone climb down off their high horses and relax. There's no need for this type of rhetoric.

Ustwo · 10-26-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

someone's touchy. cruising for moderator action?

I didn't insult you. I disagree with your misguided attempt to believe the path of least pain. you're just as "insulting" with assuming that I'm not old enough to "figure life out"

assuming I could take what you say with half an ounce of seriousness anyway.

Apparently I need to spell it out for you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

seriously, use half a brain.

There, got it?

MSD · 10-26-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shauk

you guys believe what you want, just like they want you to I suppose.

I was watching it when the shit fell, I called it a demolition before I was even aware it was due to a plane hitting the building because I had just walked up my neighbors stairs and the 1st thing I said was "they're demolishing those buildings?"

seriously, use half a brain.

I had to use my whole brain to write 30 pages of papers on the subject, and starting from a viewpoint skeptical to the official version, I found nothing of substance to corroborate the conspiracy theories, with the exception of exactly what brought flight 93 down. I changed my mind because I am willing to admit I'm wrong when all of the evidence goes against what I believe.

It's hard to know what to expect when something on the scale of the 9/11 attacks occurs for the first time because nobody ever really thought about it. It's easy to misinterpret what you see, hear, and read when everyone is in a state of panic, and it's easy for something to look different from what you expect it to when a plane flies into a fortress or when millions of pounds of building material fall a thousand feet onto the ground below. I have nothing to say on the subject that I have not said in the paranoia thread, and if this thread is becoming a mirror of that one, I'm done with it as well.

woOt? · 11-13-2007, 08:41 PM

The age of aquarius is near. I better start drinking more Kefir so I can live to see it.

Ourcrazymodern? · 11-24-2007, 10:25 PM

I'm sure I will die
in the same way I have lIved:
Misunderstanding.

10-19-2007, 05:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
Moyaboy Tilted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC	I need to see this movie now. But everything you mentioned sounds plausible to me. __________________ "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

10-19-2007, 08:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes Join Date: Apr 2003	And really it should remain in paranoia. I always thought everyone who studied religions knew why Christmas was at the end of December. Plus as an atheist, I think Jesus did exist, I just don't think he was the son of God. Really this movie is typical conspiracy crap, meant to lead you down its 'logical' path, assuming you are ignorant and will accept what it says at face value. Its sort of like a poorly written De Vinci code, but still fiction. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 10-19-2007 at 08:18 AM.

10-19-2007, 08:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
Redlemon obsessive librarian Donor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New England	Already in discussion here: Zeitgeist... __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-19-2007, 08:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chicago	on the other hand, christianity is a syncretic institution. it absorbed all kinds of curious stuff from the contexts it emerged from and which it was tied to. jesus is a type--the wandering holy man--there were other possibilities like appolonius of tyana...practices were drawn from gnostic sects--early christianity legitimated itself in part through the use of magic (see augustine's city of god--the main argument he makes as to why the romans should convert is that christianity has better magic--the outcomes were called miracles, the magicians saints...) so in itself the premise of the film is not surprising--but the attempt to reduce jesus to a function of just one source practice seems to me more difficult than seeing in jesus a composite. i am kinda interested in this film, though. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-26-2007, 06:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
The_Jazz Attacking at dawn Administrator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago	Everyone climb down off their high horses and relax. There's no need for this type of rhetoric. __________________ The proud dad of Max since 2/15/06 and Andrew since 1/9/08! "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

10-22-2007, 08:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Shauk Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	excellent movie. The astrological comparison was great. and yeah, 9/11 was an inside job, wtf are you going to do about it? nothing. just like everyone else. just like me.

10-25-2007, 05:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
Shauk Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	you guys believe what you want, just like they want you to I suppose. I was watching it when the shit fell, I called it a demolition before I was even aware it was due to a plane hitting the building because I had just walked up my neighbors stairs and the 1st thing I said was "they're demolishing those buildings?" seriously, use half a brain.

10-25-2007, 07:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Shauk Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	someone's touchy. cruising for moderator action? I didn't insult you. I disagree with your misguided attempt to believe the path of least pain. you're just as "insulting" with assuming that I'm not old enough to "figure life out" assuming I could take what you say with half an ounce of seriousness anyway.

11-13-2007, 08:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
woOt? Crazy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Miami, FL	The age of aquarius is near. I better start drinking more Kefir so I can live to see it.

11-24-2007, 10:25 PM	#20 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In beautiful Como Park, St. Paul, MN	I'm sure I will die in the same way I have lIved: Misunderstanding. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT