Empathizing society - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

girldetective · 05-13-2008, 01:46 PM

My friend J has insisted I read the book Talking Back to Prozac by Peter Breggin, MD (1994, St Martin's Press). While doing so I came across this passage that I believe speaks volumes.

Quote:

Probably no other emotion is more highly devleoped or crucial in the human species than empathy. Empathy-a loving caring and concern for others-creates friendship, family, and society. It lies at the heart of all truly cooperative effort. When especially heightened in an individual, it motivates the most creative and heroic actions. It is probably the single most important human quality.

I deduced this was true a long time ago, and I have never before found such a simple single explanation for what I believe is the cause of most of the world's ills. As Ive said before I raised my children with this in mind and it was easy to do because as a parent I had such influence. My question is how does one, or even can one, teach empathy to an adult?

jewels · 05-13-2008, 02:08 PM

Interesting question. I've often been accused of being empathic.

I tend to think only the intellectual concept of empathy can be taught.

Emotional empathy, in my experience, is either there or it's not. It's a genuine reading or connection that some of us are either born with or developed rather young. I believe it can be cultivated, in early childhood, but I don't think there's much you can do to change one's core thinking as an adult, other than allowing them to gain further intellectual empathy. I think lots of reading or any means of exposure to situations other than those lived, would be conducive to developing this type of empathy.

I'd be interested to know what others think, too.

inBOIL · 05-13-2008, 06:15 PM

My personal experience is that emotional empathy can be turned on or off at will, depending on how you choose to view the situation. Perhaps there are people who simply haven't learned to turn it on. While I don't know if emotional empathy can be taught, I think there are many people who have the ability and have not learned to use it. It lays dormant in them, and it can be awakened through teaching the intellectual concept of empathy.

girldetective · 05-13-2008, 09:04 PM

My thought was teaching by example while discussing the overall benefit/effect of why one might be doing it - to empathsize. But, sometimes it seems as though some adults are rather set in their ways and dont look too far outside their window.

n0nsensical · 05-15-2008, 05:30 PM

I believe most everyone has the same capacity for empathy, its just a matter of unlocking the door so to speak, THAT is easier for some people. Its a difficult question even for the best neurologists to answer because emotions are basically a black box at this point, we can mess with the inputs and get some sort of other result, but just making a different kind of box to study is very challenging and we don't know how it works. Neurology research is still in the basic phase with things like vision and hearing that are easier to quantify than emotions. Don't want to get too far into the hardcore neurology (though if anyone is interested or has any further resources on that, do let me know) but its very fascinating to me.

I would guess the neurological basis is there in everyones DNA but the environment can affect the ability to express it. Some people have in fact learned to suppress it, that's a major symptom of PTSD. PTSD often involves a violation of trust from the outside world, thus the learned behavior is not to trust it, not to connect, the foundation of empathy. With some forms of PTSD, you can't even connect with or trust yourself, everything else seems especially distant. Empathy can be a very personal emotion, basically the understanding of yourself, its not necessarily external. That combination of empathy and self-awareness is very human.

abaya · 05-15-2008, 06:12 PM

I have a weird capacity for empathy. I very rarely feel anything powerful when people close to me are going through something (I tend to take the "tough love" approach, or to be the strong/silent type to get the person through a crisis), but I am often VERY deeply moved by articles, and especially pictures, of anonymous strangers in the news.

The latest occurrence happened this morning while I was looking at news photos from the earthquake in China, and I nearly started crying. Whenever this happens, it's because I put myself directly into the person's shoes (in the article or photo) and start wondering what they could possibly be feeling in that instant, what kind of waves of grief must be washing through them, and I try to feel them in some way, myself. And then I feel very helpless because I cannot actually do anything to help those people, other than empathize with them, which doesn't amount to a lot of practical outreach.

It's just weird. This has been going on for several years, with me. I empathize more easily with strangers than I do with the people closest to me. I don't know what kind of psychological things go into that, but that's how it is.

Nimetic · 05-18-2008, 12:59 AM

In my limited personal experience - I reckon I have more empathy when I am in or have been recently working in jobs involving people... particularly sick, old or disabled people. I'm thinking volunteer or carer work here.

I think it's necessary to see people in situations which are not of their making.

Hain · 05-18-2008, 01:48 AM

Folks, I don't know if we are getting carried away on the extent of empathy. Empathy is nothing more than thinking to yourself, "If I were in that situation, how would I feel?"

Children can be taught this from an early age by their parents. Everything is a chore and everything is overwhelming, so children can understand what the other hates and likes.

It would be fairly hard for an adult to be retaught how to think to be empathetic. How often do those required "understanding harassment" seminars required for work actually do anything- other than reiterate the consequences of harassment?

girldetective · 05-18-2008, 08:24 AM

But dont you think there must be a simple way skewing someone's thinking toward the empathetic? I come back to this same subject from different angles/words all the time - how does one make their neighbor see that by helping one or a group to prosper, that they in turn prosper? I think it may be the way to go in teaching empathy - answer the selfish, what-do-I-get-out-of-it question and the person will see the light. Show them, let them experience it. Or wait minute - is it that peace or prosperity isnt enough? Do people continually have problems because they want them?

Edit: I like this question of problems and I think Ill start a thread in the phi forum. So anyway, back to empathy.

Seer666 · 05-24-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girldetective

My question is how does one, or even can one, teach empathy to an adult?

Have someone follow a person around. Every time that persons sees someone in some sort of dire straights, the follower punches them in the back of the head. Make them literally feel the pain of others.

Really though, I'm not sure if you can. It's not that some people can't empathize, it's that they don't want to. Short of a massive trauma or life altering experience, some people will never change.

05-13-2008, 02:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Space Coast	Interesting question. I've often been accused of being empathic. I tend to think only the intellectual concept of empathy can be taught. Emotional empathy, in my experience, is either there or it's not. It's a genuine reading or connection that some of us are either born with or developed rather young. I believe it can be cultivated, in early childhood, but I don't think there's much you can do to change one's core thinking as an adult, other than allowing them to gain further intellectual empathy. I think lots of reading or any means of exposure to situations other than those lived, would be conducive to developing this type of empathy. I'd be interested to know what others think, too. __________________ Politics is applesauce. - Will Rogers

05-13-2008, 06:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
inBOIL Addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: The Forgotten Works	My personal experience is that emotional empathy can be turned on or off at will, depending on how you choose to view the situation. Perhaps there are people who simply haven't learned to turn it on. While I don't know if emotional empathy can be taught, I think there are many people who have the ability and have not learned to use it. It lays dormant in them, and it can be awakened through teaching the intellectual concept of empathy. __________________ Life is like playing the violin solo in public and learning the instrument as you go.

05-13-2008, 09:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
girldetective trusted sidekick Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW	My thought was teaching by example while discussing the overall benefit/effect of why one might be doing it - to empathsize. But, sometimes it seems as though some adults are rather set in their ways and dont look too far outside their window. __________________ . . . Running out the door again--blowing you a nice long kiss - DA I'll wager that a year from now you will look back at this with a tug, and a wince... Leto

05-15-2008, 05:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
n0nsensical It's Just A Game Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco	I believe most everyone has the same capacity for empathy, its just a matter of unlocking the door so to speak, THAT is easier for some people. Its a difficult question even for the best neurologists to answer because emotions are basically a black box at this point, we can mess with the inputs and get some sort of other result, but just making a different kind of box to study is very challenging and we don't know how it works. Neurology research is still in the basic phase with things like vision and hearing that are easier to quantify than emotions. Don't want to get too far into the hardcore neurology (though if anyone is interested or has any further resources on that, do let me know) but its very fascinating to me. I would guess the neurological basis is there in everyones DNA but the environment can affect the ability to express it. Some people have in fact learned to suppress it, that's a major symptom of PTSD. PTSD often involves a violation of trust from the outside world, thus the learned behavior is not to trust it, not to connect, the foundation of empathy. With some forms of PTSD, you can't even connect with or trust yourself, everything else seems especially distant. Empathy can be a very personal emotion, basically the understanding of yourself, its not necessarily external. That combination of empathy and self-awareness is very human. __________________ The spice must flow... "My friends I will have an energy policy that we will be talking about, which will eliminate our dependence on oil from the Middle East that will – that will then prevent us – that will prevent us from having ever to send our young men and women into conflict again in the Middle East." --John McCain May 2nd 2008

05-15-2008, 06:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
abaya Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Iceland	I have a weird capacity for empathy. I very rarely feel anything powerful when people close to me are going through something (I tend to take the "tough love" approach, or to be the strong/silent type to get the person through a crisis), but I am often VERY deeply moved by articles, and especially pictures, of anonymous strangers in the news. The latest occurrence happened this morning while I was looking at news photos from the earthquake in China, and I nearly started crying. Whenever this happens, it's because I put myself directly into the person's shoes (in the article or photo) and start wondering what they could possibly be feeling in that instant, what kind of waves of grief must be washing through them, and I try to feel them in some way, myself. And then I feel very helpless because I cannot actually do anything to help those people, other than empathize with them, which doesn't amount to a lot of practical outreach. It's just weird. This has been going on for several years, with me. I empathize more easily with strangers than I do with the people closest to me. I don't know what kind of psychological things go into that, but that's how it is. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

05-18-2008, 12:59 AM	#7 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia	In my limited personal experience - I reckon I have more empathy when I am in or have been recently working in jobs involving people... particularly sick, old or disabled people. I'm thinking volunteer or carer work here. I think it's necessary to see people in situations which are not of their making.

05-18-2008, 01:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hain Pretty far out, man! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: across the Atlantic pond	Folks, I don't know if we are getting carried away on the extent of empathy. Empathy is nothing more than thinking to yourself, "If I were in that situation, how would I feel?" Children can be taught this from an early age by their parents. Everything is a chore and everything is overwhelming, so children can understand what the other hates and likes. It would be fairly hard for an adult to be retaught how to think to be empathetic. How often do those required "understanding harassment" seminars required for work actually do anything- other than reiterate the consequences of harassment?

05-18-2008, 08:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
girldetective trusted sidekick Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NW	But dont you think there must be a simple way skewing someone's thinking toward the empathetic? I come back to this same subject from different angles/words all the time - how does one make their neighbor see that by helping one or a group to prosper, that they in turn prosper? I think it may be the way to go in teaching empathy - answer the selfish, what-do-I-get-out-of-it question and the person will see the light. Show them, let them experience it. Or wait minute - is it that peace or prosperity isnt enough? Do people continually have problems because they want them? Edit: I like this question of problems and I think Ill start a thread in the phi forum. So anyway, back to empathy. __________________ . . . Running out the door again--blowing you a nice long kiss - DA I'll wager that a year from now you will look back at this with a tug, and a wince... Leto Last edited by girldetective; 05-18-2008 at 08:27 AM.