Cynthetiq

Either way, next US presidency will be historic, with either the first black president or the first woman vice-president. Either way it is groundbreaking territory for America.

I was hoping that the race was going to be a black man vs. a white woman. I originally wanted a couple of years ago that it should be Colin Powell vs. Hillary Clinton. I'm surprised that it actually came out to something like this, just not the parties that I had envisioned.

This is something that I think that will change the face of politics in the next 20 years. Kids today can again dream of one day possibly being president. To me this is why the country is great, because there is always hope, there is always potential for change. Growing up watching the Mondale-Ferraro democratic ticket of 1984, I have been waiting for something like this to happen again.

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- Pretend that we are at a pub, having this discussion. You wouldn't bring your books or magazines with you, just your brains, experiences, and opinions. The goal is to foster a conversation with varying points of view. Please do not quote articles here. If you want to reference a book or article that is fine, but don't quote it. If members find it intriguing, they will pursue that on their own. If you pulled out a book and started reading it to someone at a pub, they'd ask you to leave. At this pub, if you paste articles, they will be deleted. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and I hope these will be insightful, interesting discussions for all.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Independent, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

Honestly, I hope the annals of history mark the success or failure of policy first and the race/gender thing second. I don't care if my next president is an Eskimo transvestite; if policy is strong and successful, then great.

jorgelito

Well, technically, Obama would the SECOND black president. However, he has mentioned himself as the 1st Asian-American president if elected.

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

Charlatan

I would be nice if that happened but let's face it... that's not how it's going to go down.

As for the original post, I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, it will be a new benchmark regardless of how the election goes. Voters will be paying close attention to see how they perform and it will certainly have an impact on future generations.

__________________
“I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

Poppinjay

I would totally drill baby drill Sarah Palin.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Baraka_Guru

Actually, the politically correct term would be Inuit transvestite....

And as far as I'm concerned, there is a difference between how this "historic" political figure will be remembered and what they actually do. Let's hope some good can come out of it despite what we remember or forget about it.

__________________
"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. [...] In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer."

—"Politics and the English Language," George Orwell

"Humankind cannot bear very much reality."

—"Burnt Norton," Four Quartets, T. S. Eliot

Psycho Dad

I've suspected that a good many people want to vote for Obama due to his election being of historical significance. And one has to to a degree suspect that this is why McCain chose Palin. I think that Clinton could have had a lot of votes for much the same reason. Although Palin certainly will not be the influence Clinton could have been.

Will is right though that the candidates chosen should be about their policies and abilities to handle issues. We are simply faced with another election where we must choose the lesser of two evils. We just try to find comfort in there finally being real opportunities for women and minorities.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

fresnelly

I've always said that I don't envy the next administration as it's facing some incredible challenges and won't be leaving unscathed.

1.)The pullout of Iraq
2.)Housing and Credit crunch
3.)High Oil prices
4.)Struggling Economy

Throw in a terrorist attack or natural disaster as icing on the cake and you'll be living through the most divisive term in the modern era, no matter who's in charge. It ain't gonna be pretty.

A few will blame the coming hardship on either Obama's heritage or Palin's gender but I think most will stick to good ol' partisan bias. We can only apply an objective historical significance to this election in, say 20 years or so.

__________________
"I am Ronald of Mordor, the Mage, the Destroyer.

Taste the scorched fruit inside my pies.

Chew the bitter towelette of truth."

J Pod by Douglas Coupland

Willravel

I guess it's just the audacity of my hope...

Bill O'Rights

Which begs the question...how can you tell? Is there a difference in the length of parkas?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Willravel

I think Inuit is the politically correct term for Alaskan Natives.

Bill O'Rights

I know that...

I meant...how can you tell if an Eskimo/Inuit is a transvestite?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Yakk

There is a reasonably popular rumor that Eskimo means "eater of raw flesh". I've heard that this is just a rumor, but regardless, many don't like the term. In any case, Eskimo definitely is not the term that the people labeled called themselves historically, but rather an external label.

As it happens, in Alaska, there are two branches of northing natives -- Inuit and Yupik. I don't know of a term that encompasses both other than Eskimo.

...

Right now, Sarah Pallin wonderfully stole the news cycle from the Democratic party. And if elected, is quite reasonably likely to be the first woman US President -- McCain is quite old, and ~20% of VPs have served as president.

Obama's choice of VP is interesting, because he would be older than McCain I think -- and McCain would become the US's oldest elected president if he was elected. In essence, Biden is not a "next presidential nominee" option.

So Pallin is both reasonably likely to succeed during one of McCain's terms, and young enough to be the presumptive presidential republican candidate after an 8 year run.

So let's presume that McCain wins the election, then gets reelected in 4 years, then dies in office. In 2016 Pallin becomes the presumptive nominee for the Republican party. Clinton then ends up being ... well, about as old as Reagan was when elected president (or about 3 years yonger than McCain). That would be an interesting election. :-)

__________________
Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Baraka_Guru

Actually, the Alaskan Natives don't speak Inuit, they speak Inupiaq and Yupik. Inuit should be reserved for the Native peoples of Arctic Canada and parts of Greenland. However, Inuit is the commonly used term for all these regions, so I guess this whole thing is a misnomer.

I suppose we could just use Eskimo to avoid confusion, but not in that eurocentric "they eat raw meat" sense. To be safe, we should probably say, "Eskimoan transvestite."

But back to the issue at hand, fresnelly has raised a good point. How can the candidates not cover these issues during the campaign? They are unavoidable disasters waiting to happen. Or are they already disasters?

I think this would be one reason why it might be possible to not put so much stock in the significance of a black or female (vice) president. Either way, there are some very heavy issues either one will have to deal with for four years or more.

__________________
"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. [...] In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia. When the general atmosphere is bad, language must suffer."

—"Politics and the English Language," George Orwell

"Humankind cannot bear very much reality."

—"Burnt Norton," Four Quartets, T. S. Eliot

roachboy

i keep thinking and writing that the idea for the right is to see if the issue can be run to ground or avoided, replaced with personality cult infotainment, with the result of pitting grassroots machine against grassroots machine in november.

and if that's true, it follows that it doesn't really matter how stupid the republican memes appear to the Outside because they are not for us. they are for the Faithful, and a very effeciently mobilized faithful they are, one that it would be stupid to underestimate.

what the obama campaign has to do is not allow this to happen.
so far, with the pain idiocy, advantage rightwingers.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Charlatan

This is what I have been thinking as well.

It does beg the questions though... what of the independent/undecided vote? Once the "faithful" on either side are on board (and it's not clear that both sides have won over their faithful yet) it is these "swing" voters that will decide the election.

Who are these people and how are they being reached?

__________________
“I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

jorgelito

Swing voter here.

I can tell you for me, it is up to the candidates to reach out and address things like issues, policy values etc. I paid attention to both the DNC and RNC (you can read about my summary in the DNC thread). I then evaluate whether or not the candidate has addressed my concerns and the credibility of that candidate. So both sides are still very relevant to me at the moment.

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

sprocket

IMHO this is the sole reason Palin was picked. America has been sold on the idea that this election is going to be 'historic' come hell or high water. Previously the only ticket that could do it was the democratic ticket. Palin was obviously chosen for the historic novelty.

__________________
Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

blktour

being from alaska and seeing how fast Palin has come up in the ranks, shows she will do whatever to get to the top. I am a Ron Paul follower, and he did state that he thinks Palin won't really "pull McCain where he needs to be." and agree with WillRavel about this "historic" election. If no one has ever done a flip off a roof, and I am the first, will that make it any more special than the next guy? My father always taught me that there will always be "someone better." so first black or first woman, it really doesnt matter. history is everyday. In our eyes it is "historic" since that is the society that we live in.

I personally think that Palin is just picking up the woman "Hilary" voters that Obama can't get. McCain is another "Bush" and this will help get into ANWR here in the AK.

No one is talking about the issues. in her speech all I saw was that she was talking up McCain and taking "jabs" at Obama without saying his name.

Then people cheer when Obama states that "they have called him worse in a basketball game".

Anything to get a rise out of people. I won't vote for any of them, nor do I think it is a "historic" event.

loquitur

I understand why people would wnat to vote for Obama, and why they would not want to vote for McCain. But this meme that McCain is just another Bush is asinine. In background, experience, training, personality, instincts they are nothing alike. Nothing. Their makeups are totally different, and I venture to say that their methods of thinking are totally different (just an impression; I don't really know either man other than from the news). So oppose McCain if you like - there are plenty of good reasons - but the idea that he is just like Bush is silly. Agreeing on certain issues doesn't make people clones - just because I like civil rights doesn't mean I'm a clone of Al Sharpton.

Willravel

Loq, if it were 2005 I'd agree with you. He's either shifted his policies becuase he thinks that the Bush way will help him win or he's been invaded by the same parasitic alien that took over Bush.

McCain's Senate votes are in line with Bush Admninistration policy 95% of the time. That doesn't seem silly to me.

Derwood

I think it was only a matter of time before either a woman or a minority were voted into the Presidency/Vice Presidency. Which came first was a matter of who that person was. Jesse Jackson was the wrong black man. Geraldine Ferraro was the wrong woman.

This year, I believe Obama is the right man, but Palin isn't the right woman. It's too bad McCain didn't pick someone like Olympia Snowe as his running mate

ratbastid

I'm not all that interested in the historicity of it. I'm REAL interested in the potential for change.

loquitur

What does this mean? I posted that his background and temperament and pretty much everything about him is different from Bush, which means a different decisionmaking process and a different approach. He's about as different from Bush as can be, as a person. We don't elect a slate, we elect a person.

As for the 95% thing, you'd need to show me which issues you're talking about and how you got that number, because "the Bush Admin" does not have a vote in the Senate. Obviously the man is a Republican, so yes, he'll vote on the "right" side of issues more often than not. And as you know, this game can be played both ways. You can show that Obama voted some high percentage of time with some loony demagogue's positions, too, if you pick the right data to feed into the comparison.

I'm not an apologist for McCain at all, nor for Obama, I just think this partisan crap is silly and makes smart people behave like idiots, parrotting talking points for their "team." It's one of the reasons I hate election season.

I hate the racist crap some people spout about Obama, and I hate people who put up sites like this one: http://downspalin.blogspot.com. Politics can make people forget their humanity, and it depresses me to no end. (I have a special needs child, and I find crap like that pretty much unforgiveable.)

Sorry, Will, I'm not unloading on you, I'm just already fed up and it's only September.