Desperate move or good for the campaign??? - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

pan6467 · 09-12-2008, 11:54 AM

First, this is to bring out campaign "slogans" or catch phrases or ads etc.... and state your opinion on such. Is it helping your candidate or hurting? Was it a good move or is it going to bite the ass of your opponent?

Mine is the whole Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilot was a governor, I find it pathetic that the Obama campaign and supporters seem to like throwing that around. How dare people try to compare Obama to Jesus, I think it tries to prey on one's faith and beliefs but it's backfiring and they can't or won't stop it.

I'm not exactly a Christian, but I do follow his teachings to the best of my ability and ego.... and I find this an act of desperation trying to get Christian votes. It takes focus off issues and shows arrogance. I just can't believe someone running for president would step this low. This is truly insane. Has our country stepped this low?

And ..... ahem..... Obama is NOT a community organizer any longer, he is a Senator and very much a part of the government.

I'd be interested to see what Obama truly did as a community organizer... did he turn water into wine?

I find it ironic that Obama's people dislike the term Obama the Messiah..... but will support this.

Desperate move.

roachboy · 09-12-2008, 12:02 PM

why are you focused on this, pan?
there are substantive positions on real issues that separate the two presidential candidates and which constitute the actual grounds for making a rational decision as to who to vote for.
this is television idiocy, the sort of stuff geared at people who are naive enough to conflate questions of image with matters of position.
i say this despite my fascination with signifiers and how they are constructed.

in this case, you have a not terribly interesting rejoinder to the republican attacks on the whole idea of community organizing in the context of their convention. i think that advert nothing more than a lob in the direction of christian voters, which constitutes a FAR wider swatch of the population than the far-right evangelicals would have one think, given that they like to arrogate to themselves a monopoly on the term, as if they are "real" and everyone else who happens to believe the same basic things but not in the same way are "Other" (the old canard about catholics not being christian comes to mind--i'm sure you know the drill).

i don't think it particularly interesting, i don't think it particularly serious and i certainly don't think that tracking individual commericals is a good way to arrive at anything like a coherent assessment of the tactical--not to mention strategic--moves on the part of either campaign.

so why are you focused on this stuff, apart from the fact that for whatever reason you've decided you don't like the obama you imagine obama to be.

jewels · 09-12-2008, 12:09 PM

Move on. This was one congressman's answer to the sarcastic "only a community organizer" comments about Obama. It was good enough for Jesus, was the sentiment.

And he added a little, by the way, Pontius Pilate was a governor, implying that the title doesn't tell much about the person.

Just goes to show you can find what you're looking for if you look hard enough.

Sheesh. When are we going to argue lipstick?

dc_dux · 09-12-2008, 12:09 PM

Pan...its a stretch to hold either candidate responsible for comments or ads from persons or independent advocacy organizations with which they have no formal ties.

I'll give you an example that I think is worse than the above....and it is an official McCain campaign ad.

An official McCain ad declares that Obama's only accomplishment in the Illinois senate was that he "backed legislation to teach "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer then says, "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family." (McCain: I approve this message)

YouTube - Education

IMO..you are just lookng for any jusitification to hold Obama responsible for any comment by anybody anywhere anytime.

pan6467 · 09-12-2008, 12:13 PM

I opened this thread for ALL to view their opinion on ANY campaign catchphrase, slogan, ad etc. I think these types of things can hurt or help campaigns to move the election a couple points.

When a congressman is on TV saying the above, when the rich and famous vocal celebrities and so on say this publicly trying to sway votes it becomes an issue.

You do not have to read this post RB, but there maybe others, on either side that have a slogan, catchphrase, ad, etc that upsets them, pisses them off, that may make them proud, happy, whatever emotion, and they want to share why that means something to them or their outrage against it.

That is what this thread is for. There are many and will be many that will focus on issues.... but perhaps we need a thread like this for people to just vent or gloat.... why not let them?
-----Added 12/9/2008 at 02 : 17 : 41-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Pan...its a stretch to hold either candidate responsible for comments or ads from persons or independent advocacy organizations with which they have no formal ties.

I'll give you two that I think are worse than the above....one is a McCain campaign ad and the other an independent guy, but who serves on a McCain campaign advisory board.

An official McCain ad declares that Obama's only accomplishment in the Illinois senate was that he "backed legislation to teach "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer then says, "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family." (McCain: (I endorse this message)

The "unofficial" ad campaign is from Deal Hudson, who serves on McCain's 80-person advisory board for Catholic issues and who has been on radio and websites saying that Obama supports infanticide.

IMO..you are just lookng for any jusitification to hold Obama responsible for any comment by anybody anywhere anytime.

No, I'm not.... but if that is what you believe ok.

Why not express true OPINION and how those examples you gave make YOU feel? Give your belief why you believe those were acts of desperation.

This thread is about that.... I just happened to be the one who started it and gave my example first..... I want to see OPINIONS from both sides. This isn't about me or just my views.... It's about letting ANYONE who wants to voice an opinion on the subject to voice it.

roachboy · 09-12-2008, 12:18 PM

well, first off if i had thought the thread a problem rather than finding it to be something of a mystery, i'd have acted on it in mod-mode. and alot of threads address this---one way or another almost every election-relation thread touches on adverts one way or another--but there's a political question involved with how much attention to pay to this register itself. you have to know that, and you have to have expected that folk would be saying "enough of this." so they're saying "enough of this."

personally, i think the mc-cain people are in serious trouble if folk start turning off the adverts.
but that's another matter.

dc_dux · 09-12-2008, 12:19 PM

pan...I do agreee with part of your title...."desperate" but in a very calculated way.

I think it is a desperate (and calculated) attempt by the McCain camp to move the discussion as far away from the issues as possible.

"This election is not about issues," said Rick Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."

It is at the base of the Rick Davis (campaign manager)/Steve Scmidt (Rove protegee and senior adviser to campaign) campaign strategy for McCain.

Your OP feeds right into that strategy...good work!

added: I deleted the "unofficial" ad I had posted above since that would be playing into that strategy as well. I left the offical McCain ad up there because, IMO, that is one for which McCain should be held accountable.

smooth · 09-12-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

well, first off if i had thought the thread a problem rather than finding it to be something of a mystery, i'd have acted on it in mod-mode.

I've been gone so long I didn't even know what the hell you meant by this until I looked at your title.

pan, I don't agree with you how continuously link Obama with anything anyone says anywhere that you find distasteful.

ASU2003 · 09-12-2008, 06:45 PM

I don't watch commercials (MythTV automatically takes them out), and I'll watch the debates to see where they stand on the issues and who I think will do a better job.

Seaver · 09-12-2008, 08:00 PM

That quote puts whoever said it (or whoever supports it) into the same area in my mind as those Bush=Hitler people.

In short it's people who lack the comprehension of their own beliefs and the lack of intelligence to cohesively stipulate their argument in the face of opposing viewpoints and facts that fall back on this as a crutch.

pan6467 · 09-13-2008, 12:00 PM

So, no one else finds ANY ad/slogan/etc from ANYONE offensive or desperate or great?

No one else would like to share the ad/slogan/etc that plays on their emotions?

Instead we have posts talking about the ad I posted, which was not what I wanted.

I vented my feelings on one, I explained what I was doing.

As for those who say I constantly put down Obama, how many Palin threads are there, "It's like some bad Disney movie" and so on.

Yet, this thread is NOT designed to focus on any ONE candidate, it's here for anyone in TFP to voice their opinion and feelings about an ad/slogan/etc used y one of the candidates.

Talk about an Obama ad that you think is underrated and will help his campaign, something from McCain that gets to you. Let's see your opinions, feelings and open up..... don't just attack the first thread and say "See you just like to attack Obama"..... That is not what this thread is about.

This is one reason I don't even listen to Obama people..... I'll say one thing offer them a chance to rebut or give their opinion and all they do is talk about how much I hate Obama. They offer no other opinions, they don't talk about their feelings, the emotional side of them that is deciding whom to vote for.... no it's all about that Obama attack they perceived they saw.

The above wasn't even really an attack on Obama.... it was an attack on a slogan that was started on the web and picked up and is now used by even people in elected office as support for Obama. I voiced an opinion on that.
-----Added 13/9/2008 at 02 : 05 : 32-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

That quote puts whoever said it (or whoever supports it) into the same area in my mind as those Bush=Hitler people.

In short it's people who lack the comprehension of their own beliefs and the lack of intelligence to cohesively stipulate their argument in the face of opposing viewpoints and facts that fall back on this as a crutch.

I agree with this. And it works both ways. Unfortunately, the Obama camp wants to constantly play victim and talk about how they are attacked.

I am no fan of Bush, but I do give the man credit in that when he was compared to Hitler and people were pushing all this hatred at him {myself included} he never truly acknowledged it and let it sway him from what message he had. I disagree with him on many levels but he has my respect in that area.

Halx · 09-13-2008, 12:15 PM

Dude, fuck the slogans. Focus on the issues.

host · 09-13-2008, 12:15 PM

pan, I'll offer you a deal....I'll try my damndest to get as worked up over your issue here, as you are....if you'll concede that this ....McCain choosing the obviously unqualified to be US Veep, Palin, just as Chief Kopp of Keani, AK, PD, was unqualfied to replace former Anchorage PD Chief, Monegan, as head of Alaska state Public safety dept.....

What do you think....do we have a deal.....say yes and I'll start posting my outrage, alongside ya, here!

ottopilot · 09-13-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

pan, I'll offer you a deal....I'll try my damndest to get as worked up over your issue here, as you are....if you'll concede that this ....McCain choosing the obviously unqualified to be US Veep, Palin, just as Chief Kopp of Keani, AK, PD, was unqualfied to replace former Anchorage PD Chief, Monegan, as head of Alaska state Public safety dept.....

What do you think....do we have a deal.....say yes and I'll start posting my outrage, alongside ya, here!

host, I'll offer you a deal... I'll try my damnedest (correct spelling BTW) to stop laughing after reading your post if you concede that the DNC chose an even more obviously unqualified candidate to be POTUS.

The panic over Palin is amazing. What an entertaining distraction.

GonadWarrior · 09-13-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

That quote puts whoever said it (or whoever supports it) into the same area in my mind as those Bush=Hitler people.

In short it's people who lack the comprehension of their own beliefs and the lack of intelligence to cohesively stipulate their argument in the face of opposing viewpoints and facts that fall back on this as a crutch.

And yet, the same people who spouted the Bush=Hitler nonsense take great umbrage when comparisons (the usual one is being a persuasive speaker) are made between Obama and Hitler.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, "Barack--you're no Jesus."

Seaver · 09-13-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

And yet, the same people who spouted the Bush=Hitler nonsense take great umbrage when comparisons (the usual one is being a persuasive speaker) are made between Obama and Hitler.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, "Barack--you're no Jesus."

There's actually been a comparison between Obama and Hitler? I've yet to see one.

host · 09-13-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

host, I'll offer you a deal... I'll try my damnedest (correct spelling BTW) to stop laughing after reading your post if you concede that the DNC chose an even more obviously unqualified candidate to be POTUS.

The panic over Palin is amazing. What an entertaining distraction.

Did you even check, before you posted?
damndest - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

I posted more than once that Clinton was a much better nominee if democrats were committed to winning in november, but Obama is indeed, qualified to be the nominee. He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law, and was editor of the Law Review. He gave up a lucrative opportunity to work at any of several prestigious law firms, to work as a lower paid communtiy organizer with limited direct career advancement opportunity, and he had as much or more political experience as Sen. John F. Kennedy had when he ran for president in 1960.

Sarah Palin is an unprecedented choice, in that her credentials make extremely mediocre credentials of Dan Qayle look better, in hindsight. He was a sitting US senator with a law degree from a lesser university.

I shouldn't have to explain to you that the competition Obama faced to get into Harvard, and into Columbia as an undergrad, for that matter, was immense, and he finished with high honors, at Harvard.

Palin has no such accomplishments, or comparable education, She succeeded amidst mixed reviews, in what was in comparison, due to such a small population and on the more popular side of the local political spectrum, that there can be no comparison between her limited credentials and even those of the much criticized as a lightweight, Dan Quayle......

Have you considered that your failure to accurately value the significance of the competition that Obama succeeded in, compared to Palin's accomplishments...i.e., as the article I linked to shows, her path was much more open to manipulation and propaganda as a strategy for success.... is part of the reason you support McCain's decision to choose her?

What you confuse as "upset reaction" to Palin, is a small part of a much greater reaction to your seeming endorsement....or hearty support, for wholesale mediocrity, because you discern no greater competence or achievement of one compared ot the next. It;s vexing to the rest of us and we are very disturbed by it.

Do you draw the line when it comes to the qualification of the pilot who flies you, or the surgeon who puts the knife to you....or is just one big fuck you to anyone who sees your opinions as unreasonable.....not well thought out?

Quote:

Harvard Law School

It goes without saying that admissions to Harvard Law requires that a student be prepared to face competition of the highest caliber, many of whom will have been out of college for several years. Annually, roughly 7,000 applications will be submitted for a little over 500 seats in the class. The acceptance rate is typically around 11%, with LSAT scores generally ranging from 170-175, and GPAs typically ranging between 3.80-3.95.

Here are recent stats for Liberty Universtity Law, a 4th tier school popular with US DOJ staff recruiters:

Quote:

Liberty University Law School! - College Discussion
I perused through their website for a couple minutes; it seems as if they pride themselves on being a "Christian" law school -- whatever that means.

Number of Applications: 752
Class Size: 164
Avg. LSAT: 154; Median LSAT: 153
Avg. GPA: 3.35; Median GPA: 3.3

http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/admissions/
Mission Statement

Regent Law School seeks to admit students who take seriously the critical roles they will assume as future counselors, conciliators, defenders of the faith, effective client advocates and followers of Christ. ...

Quote:

Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school - The Boston Globe

....Regent University School of Law, founded by televangelist Pat Robertson to provide "Christian leadership to change the world," has worked hard in its two-decade history to upgrade its reputation, fighting past years when a majority of its graduates couldn't pass the bar exam and leading up to recent victories over Ivy League teams in national law student competitions.

But even in its darker days, Regent has had no better friend than the Bush administration. Graduates of the law school have been among the most influential of the more than 150 Regent University alumni hired to federal government positions since President Bush took office in 2001, according to a university website.

One of those graduates is Monica Goodling , the former top aide to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales who is at the center of the storm over the firing of US attorneys. Goodling, who resigned on Friday, has become the face of Regent overnight -- and drawn a harsh spotlight to the administration's hiring of officials educated at smaller, conservative schools with sometimes marginal academic reputations.

Documents show that Goodling, who has asserted her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination to avoid testifying before Congress, was one of a handful of officials overseeing the firings. She helped install Timothy Griffin , the Karl Rove aide and her former boss at the Republican National Committee, as a replacement US attorney in Arkansas.

Because Goodling graduated from Regent in 1999 and has scant prosecutorial experience, her qualifications to evaluate the performance of US attorneys have come under fire. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, asked at a hearing: "Should we be concerned with the experience level of the people who are making these highly significant decisions?"

And across the political blogosphere, critics have held up Goodling, who declined to be interviewed, as a prime example of the Bush administration subordinating ability to politics in hiring decisions......

Tully Mars · 09-13-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

There's actually been a comparison between Obama and Hitler? I've yet to see one.

YouTube - Anne Coulter on Hannity and Colmes ,...

GonadWarrior · 09-13-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

There's actually been a comparison between Obama and Hitler? I've yet to see one.

They're everywhere. Here are two of many:

Quote:

Summary: On Glenn Beck, Ben Stein, while discussing Sen. Barack Obama's plan to deliver his speech accepting the Democratic presidential nomination at Denver's Invesco Field, stated that he did not "like the idea of Senator Obama giving his acceptance speech in front of 75,000 wildly cheering people." Stein further stated: "Seventy-five-thousand people at an outdoor sports palace, well, that's something the Fuehrer would have done."

Quote:

Certainly there are some similarities. Look at Hitler's campaign early on, it didn't blatantly support facism. The Nazis promised to clamp down on Big Business and end the class struggle (sounds familiar). It appealed to the young most, they thought they would fight the evil bourgeois and and establish a youth dominated culture. The uprising of the poor and beaten down, crushed by the evil corporations and industrialist (again, sounds familiar). Along with the youth idea, the NAZIs would use the slight of hand trick, accusing their opponents of facism; evil creatures who hoped only to increase the wealth gap and control the downtrodden proletariet. Hitler gained the young and the old alike with idealism.

You get the idea. There is a very familiar-looking picture, too, but it's on another computer, and I wasn't able to google it.

dc_dux · 09-13-2008, 04:04 PM

Gonad...thanks for pointing out the Glen Beck/Ben Stein summary.

I agree that the conservative talking heads should stop making Hitler-Obama comparisons!

Beck might also stop with the Obama is an anti_US secret Muslim!

uncle phil · 09-13-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Dude, fuck the slogans. Focus on the issues.

what he said...

09-12-2008, 11:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio USA	Desperate move or good for the campaign??? First, this is to bring out campaign "slogans" or catch phrases or ads etc.... and state your opinion on such. Is it helping your candidate or hurting? Was it a good move or is it going to bite the ass of your opponent? Mine is the whole Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilot was a governor, I find it pathetic that the Obama campaign and supporters seem to like throwing that around. How dare people try to compare Obama to Jesus, I think it tries to prey on one's faith and beliefs but it's backfiring and they can't or won't stop it. I'm not exactly a Christian, but I do follow his teachings to the best of my ability and ego.... and I find this an act of desperation trying to get Christian votes. It takes focus off issues and shows arrogance. I just can't believe someone running for president would step this low. This is truly insane. Has our country stepped this low? And ..... ahem..... Obama is NOT a community organizer any longer, he is a Senator and very much a part of the government. I'd be interested to see what Obama truly did as a community organizer... did he turn water into wine? I find it ironic that Obama's people dislike the term Obama the Messiah..... but will support this. Desperate move. __________________ Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate. I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong. JOHN LENNON (1940-1980)

09-12-2008, 12:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chicago	why are you focused on this, pan? there are substantive positions on real issues that separate the two presidential candidates and which constitute the actual grounds for making a rational decision as to who to vote for. this is television idiocy, the sort of stuff geared at people who are naive enough to conflate questions of image with matters of position. i say this despite my fascination with signifiers and how they are constructed. in this case, you have a not terribly interesting rejoinder to the republican attacks on the whole idea of community organizing in the context of their convention. i think that advert nothing more than a lob in the direction of christian voters, which constitutes a FAR wider swatch of the population than the far-right evangelicals would have one think, given that they like to arrogate to themselves a monopoly on the term, as if they are "real" and everyone else who happens to believe the same basic things but not in the same way are "Other" (the old canard about catholics not being christian comes to mind--i'm sure you know the drill). i don't think it particularly interesting, i don't think it particularly serious and i certainly don't think that tracking individual commericals is a good way to arrive at anything like a coherent assessment of the tactical--not to mention strategic--moves on the part of either campaign. so why are you focused on this stuff, apart from the fact that for whatever reason you've decided you don't like the obama you imagine obama to be. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-12-2008, 12:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The Space Coast	Move on. This was one congressman's answer to the sarcastic "only a community organizer" comments about Obama. It was good enough for Jesus, was the sentiment. And he added a little, by the way, Pontius Pilate was a governor, implying that the title doesn't tell much about the person. Just goes to show you can find what you're looking for if you look hard enough. Sheesh. When are we going to argue lipstick? __________________ Politics is applesauce. - Will Rogers

09-12-2008, 12:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chicago	well, first off if i had thought the thread a problem rather than finding it to be something of a mystery, i'd have acted on it in mod-mode. and alot of threads address this---one way or another almost every election-relation thread touches on adverts one way or another--but there's a political question involved with how much attention to pay to this register itself. you have to know that, and you have to have expected that folk would be saying "enough of this." so they're saying "enough of this." personally, i think the mc-cain people are in serious trouble if folk start turning off the adverts. but that's another matter. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-12-2008, 12:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
dc_dux Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington DC	pan...I do agreee with part of your title...."desperate" but in a very calculated way. I think it is a desperate (and calculated) attempt by the McCain camp to move the discussion as far away from the issues as possible. "This election is not about issues," said Rick Davis. "This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates." It is at the base of the Rick Davis (campaign manager)/Steve Scmidt (Rove protegee and senior adviser to campaign) campaign strategy for McCain. Your OP feeds right into that strategy...good work! added: I deleted the "unofficial" ad I had posted above since that would be playing into that strategy as well. I left the offical McCain ad up there because, IMO, that is one for which McCain should be held accountable. __________________ "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. " ~ H.L. Mencken Last edited by dc_dux; 09-12-2008 at 12:45 PM.

09-12-2008, 06:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: possibly ohio	I don't watch commercials (MythTV automatically takes them out), and I'll watch the debates to see where they stand on the issues and who I think will do a better job.

09-12-2008, 08:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Chicago, IL	That quote puts whoever said it (or whoever supports it) into the same area in my mind as those Bush=Hitler people. In short it's people who lack the comprehension of their own beliefs and the lack of intelligence to cohesively stipulate their argument in the face of opposing viewpoints and facts that fall back on this as a crutch. __________________ You, sir, need to drink more bourbon and be less married.

09-13-2008, 12:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manhattan	Dude, fuck the slogans. Focus on the issues. __________________ - Hal(x) "But suppose everybody on our side felt that way." "Then I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way. Wouldn't I?" [Read Me]

09-13-2008, 12:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
host Banned Join Date: Sep 2004	pan, I'll offer you a deal....I'll try my damndest to get as worked up over your issue here, as you are....if you'll concede that this ....McCain choosing the obviously unqualified to be US Veep, Palin, just as Chief Kopp of Keani, AK, PD, was unqualfied to replace former Anchorage PD Chief, Monegan, as head of Alaska state Public safety dept..... What do you think....do we have a deal.....say yes and I'll start posting my outrage, alongside ya, here!

09-13-2008, 04:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
dc_dux Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington DC	Gonad...thanks for pointing out the Glen Beck/Ben Stein summary. I agree that the conservative talking heads should stop making Hitler-Obama comparisons! Beck might also stop with the Obama is an anti_US secret Muslim! __________________ "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. " ~ H.L. Mencken