The Palin Email Hack - Tilted Forum Project - TFP - Sexuality, Philosophy and Political Discussion

AYHJA · 09-17-2008, 06:57 PM

Have any of you heard/seen about this yet..?

Can't say that I'm shocked, though I'm pretty sure nobody in the the GOP could have imagined that it would be this bad...It doesn't seem too revealing, though, you can peep it out on digg or here if you're curious about the content or the details of the hack...

The more underhanded aspect of this is that if real, there could be a potential fallout from the accounts now being deleted...I believe there were trying to subpoena the emails for something related to the so called 'Trooper Gate'...Of course, nothing ever really gets deleted, so they may come a calling on Yahoo if there are issues about it...

ASU2003 · 09-17-2008, 07:22 PM

I'm kind of on the fence about this. On one hand, she was using a private e-mail account for public business, and I'm not sure if they could have been subpoenaed, and maybe she knew that.

But, this was an invasion of privacy. I don't want the government reading my e-mail, I don't think that her e-mail should be opened up to the world. Should these hackers break into McCain's doctor's office and post his medical records?

guyy · 09-17-2008, 08:02 PM

Who cares?

This another distraction, another irrelevance.

Charlatan · 09-17-2008, 08:16 PM

Regardless of the content, should a public official be doing the business of the public on a private account?

loquitur · 09-17-2008, 08:30 PM

I believe hacking email is a crime. I think the news has said the Secret Service was alerted.

filtherton · 09-17-2008, 08:32 PM

I hope the hacker ignores any subpoenas s/he may receive.

dc_dux · 09-17-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Regardless of the content, should a public official be doing the business of the public on a private account?

That is the larger issue for me as well. It is a violation of administrative procedures (in most states and the federal govt).

Sure, charge the hacker too, but that doesnt let Palin off the hook.

I'm getting more and more of a sense that Palin has no more interest in an open and transparent government than Bush/Cheney,

AYHJA · 09-17-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I hope the hacker ignores any subpoenas s/he may receive.

LMFAO..!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by loquitur

I think the news has said the Secret Service was alerted.

Over a yahoo account..? Its really, really not that serious...I'm afraid that by the time its all said and done, they'll have torn so far in the good Gov from so many angles it won't really matter that much...

Tully Mars · 09-17-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AYHJA

Over a yahoo account..? Its really, really not that serious...I'm afraid that by the time its all said and done, they'll have torn so far in the good Gov from so many angles it won't really matter that much...

I'm pretty sure hacking an e-mail account, yes even a Yahoo e-mail account, is a federal crime.

This guy's looking at possibly getting a five year federal sentence for basically doing just that.

Ex-anchor admits hacking e-mail - Crime & courts - MSNBC.com

kutulu · 09-17-2008, 10:03 PM

It was anon users on 4chan. Who knows if the person breaking into the account was even a US Citizen. Also, guessing a password isn't hacking. Yahoo has all sorts of hints that allow you to obtain your password (dog's name, cars, street names, bs like that). A public official like that would have all that in the open.

Furthermore, whoever did this was probably skilled enough to be able to cover his tracks.

This should really be a lesson that you should never enter real answers into those hint checkers that allow you to access your account. At the very least you are better off making something obscure up and using it as the same answer on every account.

dc_dux · 09-17-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I'm pretty sure hacking an e-mail account, yes even a Yahoo e-mail account, is a federal crime.

This guy's looking at possibly getting a five year federal sentence for basically doing just that.

[ was the under the impression that, under federal law, hacking an e-mail account is a misdomeanor offense...unless it was a government e-mail account.

SecretMethod70 · 09-18-2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Sure, charge the hacker too, but that doesnt let Palin off the hook.

Exactly. Regardless of how the info has come out, it's out, and it's not encouraging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I hope the hacker ignores any subpoenas s/he may receive.

Too funny.

Tully Mars · 09-18-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

[ was the under the impression that, under federal law, hacking an e-mail account is a misdemeanor offense...unless it was a government e-mail account.

It could well be, I have no idea. I know I read somewhere about the feds raiding that anchor's house and seizing his computers. From what I understood they did that looking for proof he hacked his co-worker e-mail. The article I quoted says he could face up to 5 yrs. I thought a misdemeanor in the fed system was a 1 yr max. but he maybe looking at 5yrs due to the number of times he violated, don't know. Really don't care.

My point was it is a crime. I think breaking the law is wrong. Even if you like the results of that crime.

I'm all for getting to the bottom of "troopergate" and finding out what kind of leader she is, but I don't think breaking the law is the way to go about it. I highly suspect she's got something to hide, if not why not just open it up and let it all out? Hell even her excuses have become rather bizarre.

dc_dux · 09-18-2008, 06:35 AM

Tully...I agree it is a crime.

So is an elected official violating a state's open records laws. Using a private e-mail account for public business might very well fall in that category.

Tully Mars · 09-18-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Tully...I agree it is a crime.

So is an elected official violating a state's open records laws. Using a private e-mail account for public business might very well fall in that category.

It could be, don't know anything about Alaska's laws on this issue. Given the number of people and my experience with small governments (city, county etc...) I wouldn't be surprised to find there is no law regarding this issue. Might be after this is all over though.

I find it rather interesting the McCain camps screaming partisan hatchet job while the fact is the vote to proceed with this investigation was done with a GOP majority. I smell crap.

But, everything about Palin smells to me. I keep thinking about the old Cheech and Chong bit-

Quote:

"Hey, man, what is that?"

"I don't know,man, it looks like dog shit."

"Well, dude, what's it smell like?

"Dude!, it smells like dog shit."

"Well, what's it taste like?"

"Oh, man! This tastes like dog shit! Come on let's get outta here."

"Yeah, good thing we didn't step in it."

I'm hoping the US voters stop at "what's it smell like?"

The_Jazz · 09-18-2008, 07:08 AM

Honestly, I didn't see anything that looked like anything that qualifies as REAL state business. Could she have abused this account to hide activities? Sure, but it doesn't look like she did.

Did the 4chan guys commit a crime? Yep. But so did I when I jaywalked Clark Street this morning. Pretty minor, unless Palin's quasi-legal account is somehow "special". Which I don't think it is.

This was an attempt to embarrass her. Mission accomplished.

Tully Mars · 09-18-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Honestly, I didn't see anything that looked like anything that qualifies as REAL state business. Could she have abused this account to hide activities? Sure, but it doesn't look like she did.

Did the 4chan guys commit a crime? Yep. But so did I when I jaywalked Clark Street this morning. Pretty minor, unless Palin's quasi-legal account is somehow "special". Which I don't think it is.

This was an attempt to embarrass her. Mission accomplished.

Not sure I'd compare jay walking to a federal crime.

Did this embarrass her? Not in many peoples eyes. Many folks see this as just one more example of how low the left will sink to "get her." IMO, crap like this allows her to bask in the light of victimization for yet another news cycle. Which means she can avoid answering questions about real issues. Something I don't think she very good at.

Yesterday someone at one of her rallies asked her what specifically makes her qualified regarding foreign policy. Her answer was something like "I'm qualified, if you want specifics go ahead try to stump the candidate.' Next question please. Umm, excuse me I think you were asked for specifics and you gave some gibberish answer.

This morning this was on my news for a sec. or two. Then they spent several minutes discussing the e-mail hack and the fact they hacker(s) posted pictures of her family. Gasp! Of her family? Ya, her family! By the way they were speaking I was expecting to see naked people doing coke off each other. Nope, a couple shots that look rather bland.

She plays the victim perfectly, that is something she's very good at. Almost like it was scripted or something, hmm.

asaris · 09-18-2008, 08:07 AM

From The Volokh Conspiracy, a libertarian blog:

Quote:

Palin's Yahoo E-mail Account Hacked, Contents Posted Online: Fox News reports:

In the latest of a series of invasions into Sarah Palin’s personal life, hackers have broken into the Republican vice presidential candidate’s private e-mail account, and a widely read Web site has published screen grabs from it.
An article Wednesday in Gawker.com posts family photos and snapshots of e-mail exchanges the Alaska governor had with colleagues. Gawker says the-email account has since been shut down, but it will leave the images up on its site for all to see.
"Here are the screenshots of the emails saved before the account went dark, along with the contact list. It’s newsworthy and we will not be taking it down!" the site declares.

Gawker has posted the contents in several individual posts; here is the most recent.

UPDATE: The FBI and Secret Service are conducting a joint investigation. The easiest crime to prove here is 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(2)(C), accessing a protected computer without authorization to obtain information, with the possibility of felony liability under 18 U.S.C. 1030(c)(2)(B)(ii)-(iii) and also the possibility of felony liability under 18 U.S.C. 1030(a)(4). As with most computer crime cases, the real trick will be finding the bad guy rather than finding a charge.

ANOTHER UPDATE: In the comment thread, J. Aldridge writes:

Since Gawker is fully aware this information was obtained illegally they are looking at some serious charges.

Well, it's a free country, so anyone can look. But I don't think Gawker is criminally liable for posting the information. While it's unseemly and perhaps rather nasty to post it, it's normally not a crime to post evidence that was obtained as a fruit of crime. There is no claim that the information was obtained in violation of the Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. 2511, which might trigger a prohibition on disclosing illegally intercepted materials. The contents here were stored, not in transit, and thus the Wiretap Act's disclosure limitations don't apply. See, e.g., United States v. Steiger, 318 F.3d 1039 (11th Cir. 2003). Further, even if a statute did prohibit such a disclosure — and again, I don't know of such a statute — publishing it is likely protected by the First Amendment under Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U.S. 514 (2001), assuming that Gawker was not involved in the hack.

The_Jazz · 09-18-2008, 08:15 AM

If Gawker can make the argument that its newsworthy stick, no one can really tell them what to do. All they have to do is point to the Troopergate investigation and say that serves as proof to back up earlier stories in Gawker and the media at large.

In other words, suck on our large, First Amendment-protected balls, feds.

aceventura3 · 09-18-2008, 10:12 AM

First, I have not seen any evidence that Palin conducted state business using a private email account in violation of state or federal law. It is amusing to see people making assumptions, presuming guilt all without presenting any evidence.

Second, these laws are silly. I doubt reasonable people would be able to clearly define what "official state business" is, so this could be used as a political tool against any politician with a private email account. Why are emails treated different than other forms of communication. If I conduct "official state business" using smoke signals why should that be subject to different rules than emails.

Third, I think it is an easy way to attack your political enemy while pretending that you are on some honorable crusade.

This just illustrates that as much as those on the left complain about the political tactics used by the right, the left is just as bad or worse in many cases.

asaris · 09-18-2008, 10:51 AM

Emails are treated differently because it's a lot easier to hack into a Yahoo! account than a government account, I'm guessing.

loquitur · 09-18-2008, 01:33 PM

Asaris, thanks for that post. I was going to put in a link and then saw you did.

Just for the record: the poster Asaris quoted above is Orin Kerr, a professor at George Washington U Law School, specializing in criminal law and procedure, and computer crime. He's the guy whose posts I look to when I have questions about criminal law current events, because he really does know what he is talking about and is intellectually honest to a fault. If you want a link to the particular post, so that you can see some of the comments as well, click here. Kerr is almost universally well-respected.

AYHJA · 09-18-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Third, I think it is an easy way to attack your political enemy while pretending that you are on some honorable crusade.

What exactly does that statement mean..?

aceventura3 · 09-19-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AYHJA

What exactly does that statement mean..?

It means that a political party with a stated purpose of investigating some wrong when they have little or no real evidence can make an accusation that the person subject to the investigation may have used personal email accounts to cover up their wrong doings. There is no real defense against this invasion of privacy. If you are not guilty but don't want your private emails made public and fight - people assume you are guilty. If you turn over your personal emails you expose yourself to all kinds of trivial unfounded attacks and information being used improperly and out of context.

This is also a tactic that can be used as a "fishing" exhibition. Again, a political party not really having any evidence but will use personal emails in an attempt to get something. I don't like this because I believe in our Constitution - the part where people are presumed innocent. I think people have a right to privacy and should not be exposed to undue searches and seizures. I even think politicians have a right to privacy, regardless of party. Again, I thought the intrusion into Bill Clinton's private affairs ( pardon the pun) was wrong.

AYHJA · 09-19-2008, 05:33 PM

09-17-2008, 06:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
AYHJA Upright Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stark-Vegas	The Palin Email Hack Have any of you heard/seen about this yet..? Can't say that I'm shocked, though I'm pretty sure nobody in the the GOP could have imagined that it would be this bad...It doesn't seem too revealing, though, you can peep it out on digg or here if you're curious about the content or the details of the hack... The more underhanded aspect of this is that if real, there could be a potential fallout from the accounts now being deleted...I believe there were trying to subpoena the emails for something related to the so called 'Trooper Gate'...Of course, nothing ever really gets deleted, so they may come a calling on Yahoo if there are issues about it...

09-17-2008, 08:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Drinking Your Milkshake Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lion City	Regardless of the content, should a public official be doing the business of the public on a private account? __________________ “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.” - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

09-18-2008, 06:35 AM	#14 (permalink)
dc_dux Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Washington DC	Tully...I agree it is a crime. So is an elected official violating a state's open records laws. Using a private e-mail account for public business might very well fall in that category. __________________ "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. " ~ H.L. Mencken

09-18-2008, 07:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
The_Jazz Attacking at dawn Administrator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago	Honestly, I didn't see anything that looked like anything that qualifies as REAL state business. Could she have abused this account to hide activities? Sure, but it doesn't look like she did. Did the 4chan guys commit a crime? Yep. But so did I when I jaywalked Clark Street this morning. Pretty minor, unless Palin's quasi-legal account is somehow "special". Which I don't think it is. This was an attempt to embarrass her. Mission accomplished. __________________ The proud dad of Max since 2/15/06 and Andrew since 1/9/08! "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

09-18-2008, 08:15 AM	#19 (permalink)
The_Jazz Attacking at dawn Administrator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago	If Gawker can make the argument that its newsworthy stick, no one can really tell them what to do. All they have to do is point to the Troopergate investigation and say that serves as proof to back up earlier stories in Gawker and the media at large. In other words, suck on our large, First Amendment-protected balls, feds. __________________ The proud dad of Max since 2/15/06 and Andrew since 1/9/08! "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

09-17-2008, 07:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: possibly ohio	I'm kind of on the fence about this. On one hand, she was using a private e-mail account for public business, and I'm not sure if they could have been subpoenaed, and maybe she knew that. But, this was an invasion of privacy. I don't want the government reading my e-mail, I don't think that her e-mail should be opened up to the world. Should these hackers break into McCain's doctor's office and post his medical records?

09-17-2008, 08:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
guyy Psycho Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin	Who cares? This another distraction, another irrelevance.

09-17-2008, 08:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NYC	I believe hacking email is a crime. I think the news has said the Secret Service was alerted.

09-17-2008, 08:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
filtherton A poor man's version of a rich man. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I hope the hacker ignores any subpoenas s/he may receive.

09-17-2008, 10:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie Join Date: Mar 2004	It was anon users on 4chan. Who knows if the person breaking into the account was even a US Citizen. Also, guessing a password isn't hacking. Yahoo has all sorts of hints that allow you to obtain your password (dog's name, cars, street names, bs like that). A public official like that would have all that in the open. Furthermore, whoever did this was probably skilled enough to be able to cover his tracks. This should really be a lesson that you should never enter real answers into those hint checkers that allow you to access your account. At the very least you are better off making something obscure up and using it as the same answer on every account.

09-18-2008, 10:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ventura County	First, I have not seen any evidence that Palin conducted state business using a private email account in violation of state or federal law. It is amusing to see people making assumptions, presuming guilt all without presenting any evidence. Second, these laws are silly. I doubt reasonable people would be able to clearly define what "official state business" is, so this could be used as a political tool against any politician with a private email account. Why are emails treated different than other forms of communication. If I conduct "official state business" using smoke signals why should that be subject to different rules than emails. Third, I think it is an easy way to attack your political enemy while pretending that you are on some honorable crusade. This just illustrates that as much as those on the left complain about the political tactics used by the right, the left is just as bad or worse in many cases. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

09-18-2008, 10:51 AM	#21 (permalink)
asaris Mad Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington, DC	Emails are treated differently because it's a lot easier to hack into a Yahoo! account than a government account, I'm guessing. __________________ "Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

09-18-2008, 01:33 PM	#22 (permalink)
loquitur Junkie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NYC	Asaris, thanks for that post. I was going to put in a link and then saw you did. Just for the record: the poster Asaris quoted above is Orin Kerr, a professor at George Washington U Law School, specializing in criminal law and procedure, and computer crime. He's the guy whose posts I look to when I have questions about criminal law current events, because he really does know what he is talking about and is intellectually honest to a fault. If you want a link to the particular post, so that you can see some of the comments as well, click here. Kerr is almost universally well-respected.

09-19-2008, 05:33 PM	#25 (permalink)
AYHJA Upright Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stark-Vegas	Ahh