Willravel

The following is a hypothetical conversation between Senator Barack Obama and President Jed Bartlet of the West Wing, presumably after he has left office. It was authored by West Wing creator Aaron Sorkin. Please, read the whole thing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/op...hp&oref=slogin

I have to admit, I've always had a heterosexual man crush on the Bartlet character; perfect "aw shucks" father figure and simultaneously a singular mind. When Bartlet finally lets loose, I found myself nodding.

Would Obama finally taking on a strong offense piss off McCain supporters? Yes. Would it raliy independents and undecideds? YES. If Obama wants to win, he'll honestly have to stop pulling punches in this match and give all he's got.

So what do you make of this fictional conversation?

ASU2003

He doesn't have to get too negative, but shine the light of truth on what is going on, and what life under a McCain administration would look like and Obama would be doing better.

Actually, if Obama ever goes on Lou Dobbs TV show, he should give Obama that speech.

onesnowyowl

I loved this bit:

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guy44

Holy cats - a good MoDo column! It's like a lunar eclipse or something - arriving once every year, two years or so, MoDo uses her unmatched powers of sarcastic, vapid bitchiness for good and actually produces something worth reading. I look forward to her February 5, 2010 article with great anticipation.

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reconmike

Funny how Mccain lived in a tiger cage for 5 years was left out, or that Mccain has seen more hardship than Obama has ever seen.

gotta love the rah rah section, go team

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Willravel

John McCain was allowed into Annapolis because of his last name, graduated at basically the bottom of his class, crashed 5 planes, and finally was captured in October of 1967. His only true accomplishment was not dying. I give him full credit for that, but it doesn't change the fact that he came from a rich family, and then married into money.

Tully Mars

That fiction's probably being written right now by Dennis Miller. I envision McCain, Ted Nuggent and Chuck Norris all sitting around a camp fire chit chatting about the evils of the liberal media.

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People are always bitching about getting what they deserve... I think if they did they'd be greatly disappointed. Me

reconmike

Rich family Will? Military families are loaded? They make a good living at the ranks his father achived, but rich I would hardly say that.

But then again anyone making more than what the unions steal is rich.

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ottopilot

IMHO - This is really getting close to the bottom folks... from all sides.

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"All the leaders of groups tend to be frauds. If they were not, it would be impossible for them to retain the allegiance of their dupes" - H.L. Mencken
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reconmike

Please assplain how it is fiction Tully, Was Mcain in a tiger cage? Was Obama beaten daily while his momma was living off the governments tit?

I see Rosie, Sean Penn, and Alex Baldwin sipping Starbucks in some art gallery thinking of ways to leave the country again if mccain wins.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Seaver

Um... no career military man is rich. My father served as an Officer for 23 years. With Hazard pay, flight pay, and as an XO of a base of 30k people below him he got paid $50k. I make more than that with my first job out of college.

Oh yeah, and if you want to point out graduating at the bottom of classes.... look at our country's history. Grant, Admiral Bull Halsey, Stonewall Jackson, etc all graduated at the bottom of their class. Hell Carter finished 7% of his class and we see how crappy of a Presidency he had.

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Tully Mars

I'm simply making the point that the above piece regarding Obama meeting Barlet is a piece of fiction written by a writer of fiction. All I was saying was a fictional piece in McCains favor is probably currently be written by someone like Dennis Miller, also a writer of fiction.

I was not and am not making any attempt to state that McCain did not spend time in a POW camp. I might question whether he spent "five years in a tiger cage" solely because my understanding of a 'tiger cage' is it is a specific type of confinement/torture used by the VC. I'm not sure you could honestly say McCain spent five years in one.

But that's really not my point. My point was the piece in the OP was written by a well known liberal writer. You're simply not going to find positive statements regarding McCain in something written by Sorkin. If you want positive comments regarding McCain in a fictional account of an encounter that never happened you're going to have to wait for a conservative writer to write it, like Dennis Miller. Then we'll have people on the left pointing that the conservative author left out the positive points in Obama's bio. Which would bring this whole silly conversation to it's natural conclusion.

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People are always bitching about getting what they deserve... I think if they did they'd be greatly disappointed. Me

dc_dux

I would agree that McCain didnt come from a monied family....but rather a family of influence, at last enough influence to get him into the Naval Academy....with poor grades and a bad temper.

And then, as soon as he came home from Vietnam, quickly divorced his wife and married money to fund his foray into politics, built solely on his war "hero" status.

More power to him for pulling it off.

But, IMO, it is why he has no clue about the issues facing the "common" working family. Much like Bush and unlike Obama, Clinton and even Reagan, all of whom came from working class backgrounds and understood how the "economy" is a personal issue and a pocketbook issue, not a theory.

Oh...and Sorkin would make a great campaign communications strategist!

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~ H.L. Mencken

guy44

I don't know many informed liberals who think MoDo is one of them. She is most definitely not. She is queen socialite of the beltway class, immune to logic, informative writing, and being useful to humanity in any manner whatsoever.

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Tully Mars

My reference was, as I stated, to the part of the piece written by Sorkin. Not Dowd. That's why I stated it was "fiction written by a writer of fiction." I don't think of Maureen Dowd as a fiction writer, it's my understanding she writes opinion pieces for the NYT. You can argue all you want whether or not Sorkin is a liberal. My understanding is his been a heavy contributor to and, advocate of, liberal groups such as Moveon.org.

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People are always bitching about getting what they deserve... I think if they did they'd be greatly disappointed. Me

Charlatan

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mortgage007

How true. It is obvious that he does nt have a grasp of the real world when he speaks. I am very afraid of what his position on issues will be.
-----Added 22/9/2008 at 11 : 42 : 19-----
Tully:

No issue that Mccain has suffered and that this affects his world view. However, that alone does not qualify him for the presidency any more than Obama's upbringing qualifys him. He also has exactly the same executive or adminstative experience as Obama: NONE!
Give me the better educated, level headed thinker over the hot head uniformed Mccain.

shakran

No, but when you leave your sick wife, and run off and marry the heiress to the Budweiser fortune (whom you started dating, and then asked your wife for a divorce, in the opposite order to which good family values indicates you should do it if indeed you do it at all), you tend to be pretty well off.



Who won only because he vastly outnumbered the south.

Who got the idea that his sailors would be just fine facing Typhoon Cobra, a gross lack of judgement that killed 800-odd men, destroyed 146 airplanes, and sank three destroyers.

Who earned his nickname by standing like a "stone wall" instead of leading his troops to come to the aid of the Bee and Bartow brigades when they were under heavy fire.


Real winners you've chosen as shining examples of what "bottom rungers" can do.


So. . .what you seem to be postulating here is that only abject failures can possibly have a chance at success in the White House? That we should purposely find the dumbest guy we can dig up and elect him to the presidency? We've tried that for 8 years and look where it's gotten us.

asaris

Not to mention that Grant shouldn't be anyone's example of a good president.

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"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

abaya

Hey now, don't forget... Americans don't take kindly to anyone being Above Average. They're uppity and shit.

C's get degrees!!! (and the White House) Mediocrity, all the way!

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jorgelito

Aww, c'mon now Ab, that's not really fair. Of course we love our intellectuals, we broadcast the spelling bee on ESPN even. Einstein and Stephen Hawking are iconic and our Jeopardy champions become celebrities. Close to a third of American hold college degrees; one of the highest ratios on the world.

What Americans don't take kindly too are so-called intellectuals insulting the rest of us. It is the elitism, condescension and patronizing that turns off the average American. We don't like to take guff from anyone which is perfectly understandable. Bottom line, there is no need for the intellectuals to be rude to the rest of us.

There is a big difference.

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dc_dux

I'm still waiting for someone to point to any source that suggests the average American is "turned off" or feels condescended to or patronized by the "intellectual elites"...other than the mantra from the conservative talking heads.
-----Added 22/9/2008 at 04 : 05 : 47-----
Otto made the same argument in another thread...and I am patiently waiting for him to source it.

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"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. "
~ H.L. Mencken

Willravel

Has Obama done anything or said anything that you took as condescension?