ASU2003

Or are we doomed to be divided 50%/50%? Both candidates are talking about doing good things, but without the other half on board, nothing gets done. If the President asked you to make some sacrifices in your life or change how you do something, would you complain or just do it?

Will the next President be able to convince ~90% of Americans to go along with their ideas? Which ideas do you think sound good to the base during the debates, but don't stand a chance of being implemented? Which ideas do you think the other side will hate and will be actively denounced by the media, activist groups, preachers, congressmen, etc... How should they frame these ideas to get everyone on board (less wasteful spending/earmarks, reduce foreign oil use, better schools,...)?

The way I see it, Obama can't come down too hard on gun control. It may play well to the left, and be good for the inner cities with gun problems. But the NRA and the right won't let anything happen. Universal health care is another one. But, I think this is driven by lies and propaganda by the people who like the current setup and are making lots of money. And it would raise my taxes, but lower my insurance costs. There is a way they could do it right, but I haven't heard it. There would need to be a lot more research into what would work the best and how to setup/convert the current insurance companies into non-profit agencies like the post office, PBS or NPR. There would be some government oversight, but they would still compete and need to meet standards. But most Americans would see it as socialized medicine, they would have to wait weeks to get treated, pay for the unemployed lazy fat guy, and would be limited in what doctor they could see or what treatment they would get.

As for McCain's ideas, off-shore oil drilling in new places will probably happen. I think we would be better off having a larger tax on gas to fund alternative renewable fuels, but I wouldn't be protesting in the streets. As for abortion, if Bush and a republican congress couldn't strike it down, I wonder if McCain would try. I'm sure that he would shift the supreme court further to the right, and that is the biggest thing I don't like about his policy.

So, will you be leaving the country if the guy you want to win doesn't win? Or will you not recognize him and do whatever you want because no one can tell you what to do (economics or guns may force you to change eventually though)?

pan6467

Not with these 2. Neither is truly inspirational and has the best interest of the nation in their heart and soul. And as Lincoln once said, "you can fool some of the people some of the time, you can fool some of the people all of the time..... but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time" And I believe that the majority of the people see right through these 2 but there is truly no other choice.

We need a Ronald Reagan, a JFK, an FDR, a Clinton, someone charismatic, that can sell their dream and inspire people. Like their politics or not each of them were tremendous leaders that did {Clinton had he not been so tied up I believe would have done far far better}. They sold their visions to the people and made us prosperous.

These 2 are glory hounds that want POWER and will say or do anything to get it. From what I see I seriously doubt either has any belief in their stances. They are not LEADERS.... they are bought and paid for FOLLOWERS grasping at power.

I fear for my country. I would like to have the funds and skills for a job in another country and to be able to leave if I needed to, but unfortunately..... and I believe this will be my new mantra.... you can check in anytime you like but you can never leave.

GOD HELP US.............

__________________
Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it.
Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. You're just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You've got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It's all down to you, mate.
I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong.
JOHN LENNON (1940-1980)

dc_dux

I have greater faith that most Americans are not that cynical.

But I also understand that the next president will face enormous challenges that will require solutions and sacrifice that may be difficult for some to swallow.

And I recognize that 10-15% of the populace on both the far right and far left have no interest in bringing the country together if it means compromise and consensus building from their respective rigid positions on most important issues.

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"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. "
~ H.L. Mencken

jorgelito

We will ne fine. Americans are resilient. I look forward to the next administration and am willing to be patient to see results. Have faith friends,

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

percy

I think America has to come together whether they like it or not. Speaking as an outsider(Canadian eh) we see a side of Americans that seem conflicted by association. It happens here too but,..the people who are so ready to defend one party or the next and throw accusations at each other is so much more venomous and hardcore than in Canada. But then slam each other if the line isn't toed to there exact liking.

From my personal knowledge (limited) of US politics but also from my career in marketing(marketing specialist) I think Obama right now is the best choice for President because he represents something fresh, new and ready to move on to greener pastures. Americans too feel that. Americans are tired of the world looking down on them. They want to be on top again and proud of it.

Interestingly though, had President Reagan been the commander in chief for the last 8 years, I would have to say that McCain would be a shoe -in. And he wouldn't be defeating Barack. He would be defeating Clinton,...Hillary that is.

flstf

No matter who is elected it will probably be business as usual:

The rich will get richer.
Taxes will go up for most.
Government will grow larger.
More people will not be able to afford health care.
The middle class and poor will only do better if it benefits the ruling class.

fresnelly

The next four years (at least) will be pretty rough, what with the state of the economy and the fatigue of war. This will be regardless of who's in power so perhaps such desperate times will help crumble the divide.

The election itself will be terribly polarizing but as the term wears on, identity politics could take a back seat to common frustration.

__________________
"I am Ronald of Mordor, the Mage, the Destroyer.

Taste the scorched fruit inside my pies.

Chew the bitter towelette of truth."

J Pod by Douglas Coupland

ASU2003

If Obama or McCain wanted to be different, they would offer a job to the other one that wasn't elected to help implement the ideas that both sides can agree to.

punkmusicfan21

Well put. Human Beings in general use cynicism as a defensive stance. To avoid being "hurt" (I put that in quotation because for lack of a better word or phrase). American's, in general, are in the "very very very successful as human beings" category. I'd have a hard time believing anyone that lucky would be truly cynical; not just some bastardized version of cynicism.

/philosophical rant

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"So many years my heart has waited, and who'd of thought that love could be so caffeinated" - Taylor The Latte Boy (as sung to me by every person who ever order coffee from me)

guy44

From Wikipedia:

In slightly plainer English, the median voter theory posits that in any winner-takes-all election between two politicians, the best political positions for both politicians to take is the median position. This way, the politicians can try and capture the maximum number of voters willing to vote for them and unwilling to vote for the other politician. This is why you often hear about how the Democratic presidential candidate will "run to the right" after the primary concludes, and vice-versa for the Republican candidate.

Our style of elections - plurality elections - are what cause the sort of 50-50 splits the OP is complaining about. There's nothing unusual, or even particularly wrong about that, given the nature of American-style politics.

Also, frankly, I hate the concept that politics is "destroying" the country and that we need to "come together." People have legitimately differing views on all manner of policy issues and simply sitting down together will not change this reality. For example, some people think affirmative action is an effective policy. Others would like to change it to focus on class, not race. Others would like to get rid of it altogether. How are these people supposed to just "get together?" The point of a "free marketplace of ideas," to quote Mills (IIRC), is to have a dialogue, force all ideas to be tested and tried publicly, and eventually make a decision. That's what politics is.

Now, obviously, our political system is not a perfectly efficient policy-ideas debating machine out of which the most battle-tested concepts emerge victorious. It's filled with inefficiencies and failures, but it isn't just us - it's any political system. There will be distortions and failures in the process but in the end it is far better to have dueling policies, ideologies, and concepts than some sort of undefinable fantasy world in which everyone sits around a table and "comes together."

Politics are rough. People disagree about things. There's no need for everyone to "come together."

/rant

__________________
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aceventura3

America will remain divided. The divide separating liberals and conservatives is too wide. I am conservative on most issues, and I am in the minority on this political board, based on my experiences I don't see any possibility for common ground.
-----Added 29/9/2008 at 03 : 43 : 28-----
I may be in the 10% - 15% you reference. For example I see no compromise in gun ownership. I can agree with waiting periods, background checks, registration, even some restrictions on certain types of firearms, however, my right to own a gun is guaranteed in the Constitution, in my opinion. Perhaps the 10% - 15% on the other-side of the issue or those in the middle need to compromise.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

tisonlyi

I'm not American, but I am, well, not only 'progressive' (whatever the hell that diversionary term means) but leftist and anarchist (the 'libertarian' tag most apply to themselves in the states is as diversionary as 'progressive' and probably 'conservative' imho)

If you believe in freedom, we have common ground.
If you believe in a minimum of authority, we have common ground.
If you believe in markets, we have common ground.

Mutualism. Individual enterprise. Co-operatives. Markets for REAL goods and labo(u)r. Enabling collective services (education, healthcare, etc).

'Left' and 'Right' who favour economic and personal freedom are artificially divided by spectacles, in my opinion.

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In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

Daniel_

This is a trick question right?

The answer is clearly "No it won't".

Sadly.

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

ottopilot

An electoral college 'doomsday'?...

President Obama and Vise President Palin? President Biden? President Pelosi? It could happen.

You think things are screwed up enough? Here's a mind-blower... what if this virtual 50-50 split among US ideology plays out as a tie in electoral college votes? The House of Representatives choses Obama as president and the Senate choose Palin as VP with Dick Cheny providing the tie breaking vote. Talk about further splitting the nation...

The following are some other interesting "dooms day" scenarios presented in a recent Washington Times article.
Here's the complete article Washington Times - 269 tie: An electoral college 'doomsday'?

__________________
"All the leaders of groups tend to be frauds. If they were not, it would be impossible for them to retain the allegiance of their dupes" - H.L. Mencken
"continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it." - George Washington on political parties

dc_dux

otto..the electoral tie is not out of the realm of possibilities, but I think the article is misinterpreting the 12th and 20th amendments to some extent.

Its hard to imagine a scenario where the deadlock would get that far with Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate that still are expected to increase in November.

But If it does, Congress can simply enact legislation that would declare who would temporarily act as president until a "qualified" candidate is selected.

__________________
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. "
~ H.L. Mencken

tisonlyi

Hey! Someone misrepresenting reality!

Where have i seen that before?

*clicks on bookmark to whichever US-ian, UK-ianor other partisan nation's media*

__________________
In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

Willravel

I'm not interested in coming together anymore. If McCain wins, expect me to be actively trying to get him impeached until the day he leaves office.

tisonlyi

Will, honestly, joining that system and trying to work with it is an exercise in futility.

Anyone who gets to a position of power NEEDS to sell themselves out to so many different interests, and be willing to deliver on them, that there's nothing to be done for it.

Look at Clinton, look at Obama, look at Bush, look at McCain; Look at 99% of the others on the national scene (as far as i can see).

Left or Right, they're beholden to so many interest groups in their "broad churches" and large donors that there's little more than continue the current trajectory that's possible.

The problem with power is power. The problem with authority is authority.

Power and authority must be put in so many hands that no particular or group of influences can UNDULY influence authority.

The system needs replacing, not the candidates.

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In the valley of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

Tully Mars

No shit.

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Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

People are always bitching about getting what they deserve... I think if they did they'd be greatly disappointed. Me

Jozrael

Will, how exactly do you propose to do that @_@?

Willravel

It will depend on how transparent the election fraud will be. If it's anything like 2004, there will be enough evidence to crucify him.

genuinegirly

It really depends on how quickly things change with the new president. If Obama jumps right in and gives free healthcare to everyone regardless of economic status (doesn't look like it's going to happen), then that would be interesting. If McCain steps in and gives massive tax cuts to promote economic growth, that would be interesting (doesn't look like it's going to happen). Honestly, I am skeptical that they will be able to keep their word, whomever is voted in. I don't think that they have any idea what little power they will actually have as president. Their hands will be tied unless they're able to muscle congress into passing bills that meet their goals.

If the US becomes an entirely socialist nation with the election of Obama, as many conservatives fear, then the conservatives will probably just dive further into their shells and pump up their strongholds in rural America. If McCain is elected and destroys all hope for socialized healthcare, then the democratic congress will attempt to pass the bills Obama pressed for in the first place.

I really honestly think America will always be divided. If it's not one issue, it'll be another: gun control, abortion, healthcare, social security, environment, education... There are always opposing opinions. That's what American politics is all about. I don't think that there will ever be a president with whom I agree wholeheartedly. That doesn't mean I will pack up and move elsewhere.

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"violence is no more or less real than non-violence. " roachboy

Sun Tzu

and the invisible tax will continue to perpetuate its goal by the FRB.

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None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. -Johann Wolfgang Goethe