SSJTWIZTA

okay, i know most say a shotgun in best for home defense. The thing is i have every shot gun ranging from a 4-10 to a 3 and a half inch magnum. I currently only own 1 pistol, its a 1970-something smith and weston .22 semi auto.

alot of people have different variants on the subject. the thing is, that im a pretty small guy. the last time i checked im 5'11 and 140 lbs.

i was thinknig about buying a Five-Seven...until i seen the price tag.

what would anyone recommend thats a 1 shot stop.

i know that a hit from a .22 is better than a miss from a .45, but im not worried about a miss. i have plenty of time to practice, as i do with my .22. the only problem i have with my .22 is the knock down power. ive considered everything for 38 specials to 45 acps, and i still cant seem to make up my mind.

any help would be awesome.

please remember im a small guy and i wouldnt want anything to large, but a barrel long enough for me to sustain accuracy over a nice distance would be great, as i also like to shoot for practical purposes.

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First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Willravel

Is the S&W 686 4", .357 Magnum too big?

140 lbs? Get a sammich.

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Martian

I like that the first two replies are from pacifists.

The Five-Seven (or Five-seveN, if you prefer) looks impressive on paper but in real life it kind of sucks.

I'd suggest something 9mm or .40 S&W. Realistically, you're unlikely to face any threats within your own home that either of those won't be able to put down, and it's less of a bang than some of the bigger guns.

I'll leave recommendations of specific models to those who are better versed in such things, but I will point out that for reliability purposes a revolver beats a semi-auto every time.

__________________
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

- Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

smoore

I've been using .45ACP since dinosaurs roamed the earth. I hear the .40S&W has just as much or more stopping power in a smaller overall shell. I don't trust 9mm, there's a reason cops put a whole magazine into a guy and I think that reason is they don't trust 9mm either.

Glock makes good weapons. They are military grade. I never have liked them but there's that whole dinosaurs thing.

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smoore

twistedmosaic

My 90lbs girlfriend could keep a full clip of .40 in the black from 21 feet, so you should have no problems with it.

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Bear Cub

If you can handle shotguns no problem, you can handle the kick from a .45 ACP. Hell, my girlfriend is 5'5", 120# and she can handle the .45.

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Living in the United Socialist States of America.

samcol

Will is giving home protection advice on firearms choice, and a great reccomendation at that? Oh lawd....

The larger frame .357's aren't bad at all, it's the snub nose ones that really suck to shoot imo.

__________________
These are the times that try men's souls.

Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.

SSJTWIZTA

get a sammich, haha. i could out eat you, buddy

9mm is out. ive never really liked 9's.

.357 seems like a nice choice...if i want to blow the poor fellows arm off. ow well, if they're in my house with a sack full of my belongings they probably deserve it.

i need to get my hands on a .40 and see how i like 'em. so far thats what im leaning towards. hell, i expected them to kick like a mule, but from what i hear so far i should be fine.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Willravel

I have no doubt of that (I've got fat genes!!!).
I had a 9mm go through my calf. It hurt like a bitch, but I'm VERY glad it wasn't a bigger caliber.
Generally, by my understanding, one is taught to "shoot to kill". I'd suggest, if they're just stealing your crap, you point it at them. If you're in danger, then you pull the trigger.

Just my opinion.

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SSJTWIZTA

and a great opinion it is.

im not just going to blast someone for the hell of it.

well, like i said before, its time to find someone with a .40 that will let me fire it.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

twistedmosaic

If you are getting it soley for home defense, (taking concealability out of the question) and are worried about kick, get a full sized steel frame pistol. Poly frame guns kick more...the heavier the gun, the less of the shock you'll feel. The exception to that is the 22C and 23C by glock (full sized and mid-size .40)...they have ports on the top of the front of the barrel to minimize kick up.

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☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻

SSJTWIZTA

yup, im not carrying this anywhere.

thanks for your 2 cents twisted. something else i need to look into

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

smoore

There is something to be said about a lower power cartridge than a magnum, collateral damage.

Hell, you could use a .44 magnum but what happens when you miss? That thing is going somewhere. Consider that in home defense you're typically dealing with an unarmored assailant. You don't want rounds going willy-nilly around your neighborhood. .45 and .40 are heavy and slow, the energy is ablated quickly when the bullet encounters something... anything.

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smoore

MSD

Anything can drop someone, but I'd stay with the .38 to .45 range. Don't go below that because if you defend yourself and are brought to trial, it's a lot easier to explain to a jury of laymen that you needed a second shot of .45 than it is to explain that he really didn't fall down until he had consumed a quarter of his body weight 25ACP.


Also,
Anything that is powerful enough to stop an attacker is powerful enough to penetrate common building materials and still have lethal amounts of kinetic energy. Shot placement is what will protect your neighbors, not the bullet you use.

SSJTWIZTA

i live in bumfuck Ga, there is no neighborhood.

and around here, odds are they will be armed. you trust me on that one. this place is fucken' assed backwards when it comes to certain things.

the best way i can describe this place is...have you ever seen squidbillys?

MSD, neat stuff. It looks like a .40 IS my best bet so far.

thanks so far, everyone.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Martian

MSD, why did you quote me three times in a row?

__________________
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

- Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

smoore

unarmored -- no vest

MSD... interesting, I assume that's ballistics gel? Where can I read the accompanying article?

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smoore

Willravel

Because you're important.

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Crompsin

You didn't just say that. You're WillRavel for chrissakes.

If Jesus wasn't just an imaginary superhero with a lot of good press... he'd cry for you. Ya know, as your lord and savior.

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*Crompsin has written about this particular topic 3 times so far at TFP*

SSJTWIZTA,

You already own a handgun. That's a plus. Check it out: .22 LR CCI Quikshok ammunition is rather effective as a self-defense load. It's prefragmented and creates nice deep wound channels in your target despite its rather small caliber. You could use it in your current gun without a problem. I assume it is a S&W .22 LR autoloader (as opposed to a revolver). This would save you a lot of money. Invest in some CCI Quikshok ammo and a nice bright flashlight. You're already comfy with the S&W and that beats a "more powerful" gun any day. Use what you know... it ensures confidence in a stressy situation and that is what will keep you alive.

I'm going to mention the flashlight thing a lot because it's really important. I recall it being 80%-something of the instances where homeowners have to use firearms defensively happens during the hours of darkness. Proper illumination and target identification is absolutely crucial. It will keep you from tripping over the kid's toys on the stairs and it'll keep you from blasting your wife who's sneaking out to eat chocolate bars in the minivan. A good bright flashlight also has the effect of totally blinding an intruder momentarily which will both give you time to make a judgment call on shooting (is my life really threatened by this dude?) and it'll possibly scare him off without further incident (kinda in the same way the racking of a 12 gauge will for most goons).

As you mentioned, shotguns are popular for home defense because they're A) easy to operate B) extremely effective at stopping humans with minimal training, and C) relatively inexpensive to use. Shotguns are not as fun as a good handgun or rifle for popping cans at a range, though. Considering that you currently own "every shotgun"... you could easily modify one into a home defense piece. The Mossberg 500, Remington 870, or Winchester 1300 all feature a plethora of aftermarket accessories that turn the duck-grabber or the clay pigeon-buster into an action hero piece. Get an 18" barrel for one and it instantly becomes a "behind-the-bedroom-door-just-in-case" piece. Check out sites likes CheaperThanDirt.com for inexpensive shotgun mods such as M4-style sliding stocks and flashlight mounts.

Why do you want a handgun? Why not a small long gun (pistol-caliber carbine)?

You're a skinny fucker. Kinda like me. Don't worry about size. Training overcomes a lot of that. I have similar body type and I can handle just about anything reasonable in the handgun department. Most painful thing you can shoot these days are those Scandium S&W revolvers in .357 (OUCH!). Anything of realistic caliber and weight will be easy to master with enough range time. Practice makes better-than-you-once-were.

The FN Five-seveN is good if you're capping dudes in body armor. Not much else. A .40 S&W Glock is cheaper to shoot and does more damage for 98% of the targets you'll encounter out there. The "57" is a decent gun (I've handled one quite a bit) but it is designed as an body armor penetrating sidearm for police in tactical situations where their main weapon (such as a submachine gun or shotgun) may not be able to pierce the vest on some bad guy.

There isn't anything that is a "one shot stop" in the standard defensive handgun world. That bullshit is in the movies (aka Bruce Willis in "Last Man Standing"). A shotgun with 00 buckshot will stop somebody at 7 yards... but a handgun is a gamble that gets more of a "sure thing" when you have a lot of training.

Gun stats collected by the FBI place the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum high on the list of "single shot neutralizations" with, IIRC, over 85% for each. 9mm was horrible at 45% and I don't believe that .40 S&W had entered in the tests (may not have been around).

Accuracy over a distance? Pistol-caliber carbine.

My recommendations? Full size .357 Magnum revolver by either S&W or Taurus (Taurus is cheaper). Get some HKS speedloaders with Federal Hydrashock ammo in 'em. Get a Surefire flashlight. Revolvers? They're 100% dummy proof (pull the trigger) and provides enough "Oompf!" for those situations where you may need it. It can chamber .38 Special ammo as well for when you're at the range or training. The S&W 686 with a 4" barrel is a perfect revolver. It'll never get old or cease to be versatile.

If you're set on an automatic, Glocks are cheap and easy. I use a Glock 34 (9mm) for target shooting. The advantages of the auto are that they hold more and can shoot faster than most revolvers. I'd recommend the full-size Glock 17 if you're set on getting a 9mm auto. Get a flashlight on the front of it, too.

Pfft, my left nut produces more bang than a .25 ACP. His current .22 has more potential than a .25 ACP.

Heh... I should buy WillRavel a Raven .25. HAHAHA.

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C19H28O2 = C6H2(NO2)3CH3

All your base are belong to us.

Martian

That sounds downright uncomfortable for your lady friend.

__________________
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on

- Journey, Don't Stop Believein'

Crompsin

She takes it like a champ.

Since I mention it in every gun thread:

www.TheBoxOfTruth.com

Not the same test, but everybody that does gun stuff at TFP should read this site.

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...nice ports that may deafen / blind you during hours-of-darkness home defense situations (mileage may vary based on ammo, my experience with Glock **Cs has been horrible).

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C19H28O2 = C6H2(NO2)3CH3

All your base are belong to us.

smoore

That seems to be a banner farm now.

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smoore

Willravel

I also give religious advice. And capitalist advice. And menstrual advice.

The nice thing about being the author of my own moral code is I have no issues with hypocrisy when it comes to advice.

BTW, the Raven is so small and stubby it looks like it should be covered in fur and be fighting the Empire in Return of the Jedi.

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