ChrisJericho

Hey guns, so I have been doing some research for small, easily concealable pocket pistols (to maximize carry percentage). A few that have sparked some interest are the Ruger LCP and the Sig p238.

The Ruger has a double action trigger, but no manual safety. The p238 has a manual safety but single action trigger, and would lend itself to "cocked and locked" 1911 style carry.

Generally what do you guys prefer? DA triggers with a long pull, or single action with manual safeties? Also does anyone do the "Israeli Carry" method with no round in the chamber?

Thanks !

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rahl

I prefer the single action. I carry a 1911 "cocked and locked". But it's all personal preference.

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Plan9

Yeah, I prefer a single action with the safety locked; DA is okay but I have a feeling that under stress it would simply cause me to miss that first crucial shot (the one that usually hits dead on with a SA). I don't believe in "Israeli Carry" period... unless you're toting an old Colt SAA. The time it would take to ready the weapon is not worth it. Real safety means "finger off the trigger" and all that.

I carry my H&K USP45 "cocked and locked." The USP is a nice system because even while the safety is locked in "S" you can still manipulate the slide to inspect / clear the weapon. Much quicker and safer than a 1911 (*waits for incoming flames*).

I carry my Glock 34 ready to go. Glocks, of course, don't have external safeties and rely strictly on trigger awareness. I carry 17+1 in the gun and use a Kydex or leather holster.

I carry my S&W 37 J-frame .38 Special loaded and in either a IWB or pocket holster. Revolvers, in my opinion, will always have a place in civilian concealed carry.

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Jinn

Condition 1. I don't see any other way to safely CCW.

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Plan9

Depends on the weapon and the user. Just for giggles, why don't you go over the conditions?

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Formerly username "Crompsin."

Zeraph

Never really. For me personally I've never been in a dangerous enough area. Plus anything under 20-25ft (for me personally) a gun would be less useful than a knife or grappling.

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Jinn

The NRA book I got with my pistol training listed 'em like this, Crompsin:

My instructor said inasmuch what I did about Condition 1 being the "most safe," and I didn't really see a reason to disagree with him at the time or now. It seems like 3/4 are incredibly dangerous to the wielder, Condition 0 violates the gun-safety rule about knowing what the target is and what is behind the target, and 2 seems acceptable, but not for me. My aversion to Condition 0 is probably why I'll never own a Glock..

I store my handguns Condition 3, even though most would argue for Condition 4. For me, it's again a time thing.. if I need to quickly defend myself, I'd rather have to only rack the slide rather than put the magazine in AND rack the slide..

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Bear Cub

My .45 is always cocked, safety off. My .380 has a very light DA trigger, so I keep a round chambered but the hammer isn't cocked, safety off.

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KirStang

Condition 1, never know when you're going to need your piece and if you need to operate it with one hand only. The only exception is Condition 3 in cargo pocket carry, the reason being when I sit down with cargo pocket carry, it points at the person across from me. Not too comfortable with that =P.

Plan9

Just a little philosophy: The point of concealed carry is to avoid physical contact by using a no-effort lethal weapon with range. The chances of being injured during a physical altercation ("hand to hand") are extremely high, especially if your attacker is wielding a weapon.

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"The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people."

Formerly username "Crompsin."

Slims

I carry condition 1.

With my 1911 that means single action, hammer back with safety on and a round in the chamber.

With a striker fired weapon it is round in the chamber.

The ruger LCP (basically a nicer version of the keltec) is perfectly safe to carry with a round in the chamber (at least as safe as a revolver) but you need to put it in some sort of holster in order to prevent unintentional access to the trigger.

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The_Dunedan

My XD rides Condition 1, likewise any revolver I carry into the woods. When I carried my Makarov, it was Condition 2; a longer, heavier pull to get things started, but light and quick after that.

shalafi

When I have carried it has been condition 2. I never carry anymore though since I feel it would be irresponsible given my lack of practice. I'm lucky if i make it to the range once or twice a year.

JStrider

ditto

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ChrisJericho

Hmmm ok a lot of condition 1's.

I was thinking about the Israeli carry, but the main problem I have with it is that I want to have a free hand to defend myself with and obviously racking the slide requires both hands.

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<ngdawg> any one else equate jericho with a stage extra who just runs across the stage, yells one word and runs off?

Plan9

Unless you're using your belt or some other shoot school "Quick, they're bored and need cool stuff!" method such as a table or your opposite bootheel.

Just kidding.

Yeah, carrying a firearm without a round in the chamber is a little like holding your rigger'd parachute out at arm's length when you jump out of a plane instead of donning it before exit. If you're afraid of an accident stemming from your safety'd and holstered firearm... you need to chill out.

__________________
"The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people."

Formerly username "Crompsin."

ChrisJericho

I also have another related question, I have noticed that there are some pistols, such as the Walther PPK, who have safeties that in order to turn them off you flip the lever UP. It seems somewhat unnatural to me, as the few firearms I've shot have safeties that are disengage with a downward pressing motion. What is the best way to sweep these types of safeties off?

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<ngdawg> any one else equate jericho with a stage extra who just runs across the stage, yells one word and runs off?

dissonance

The Beretta 92FS Safety disengages that way. I switch it off by using the soft part of my thumb right before the first knuckle. This is a very simple and natural motion. This is easier than using the tip of your thumb at an awkward angle like most people use.

That said, I prefer my 92G with no safety or even better, my Glock for CCW.

Plan9

... probably why the Sig 230 and 232 (Walther PPK clones) don't feature a manual safety and opted for a decocking lever.

In my experience, the Beretta M92FS slide safety has caused more issues for guys on the range (and probably combat) than any other type of safety. They inadvertently engage it when slingshot'ing the slide to load or clear (partially due to a failure to use "workspace") or fumble with it because they feel they have to modify their grip slightly to disengage it (much like the slide release on a traditional 1911). It's "idiot proof" to the point of being a hassle because of it's location, direction of operation, and how it interferes with normal operation drills with the weapon.

The rotate-down-slide-safety was also the standard on old S&W automatics such as the 5906 and 4506.

It is my general feeling that this particular type of safety is better for cop guns and target pieces than it is for concealed carry firearms.

Granted, I'm not a big fan of .380s or the Beretta M9, so YMMV.

...

IMO, the Garand-style safety featured on the Steyr M-series is a fast, no-fucking-around safety mechanism and better for concealed carry despite coming with its own innate issues like "your finger is already inside the trigger guard before the safety is released."

Overall, the frame mounted 1911-style safety is probably the best combination of safety and speed. You can confirm and index it without being unsafe and you can disengage it as a part of a natural grip without needing Andre the Giant hands.

__________________
"The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people."

Formerly username "Crompsin."

SSJTWIZTA

i only carry a pistol into the woods. its usually tucked into the back of my pants pressed firmly against my ass. damn, it feels food to be a gangsta.

i dont think i'm going to get a CCW until i move to indiana. i have only a handful of friends there and i'm alone a majority of the time. until then, im lurking this thread to get some carry ideas.

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UnclearContent

I carry a revolver and a Glock. Both fully loaded, round in chamber, just common sense and a half-inch of trigger pull away from function.

I pocket carry with Galco holsters. I keep nothing but the weapon in that pocket.

The only exception is when I'm at work and using my belly bands. Since the holster is primarily elastic my finger can get hooked in the trigger and possibly discharge the weapon. In that case I carry with no round in the chamber.

Plan9

Huh? I don't have any issues with belly bands. Do you have extra fingers?

__________________
"The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people."

Formerly username "Crompsin."

TequilaJr

I always carry condition 1. Using quality holsters makes me a lot more comfortable carrying this way, although I have done the "mexican carry" once or twice before in a pinch (in condition 2).

moot1337

Steyr S9, with round in the chamber and either 1)in a holster that covers the trigger guard, safety off (preferred) or 2)in a large pocket, garand-style safety on.

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bill96ab

I think I am the only one that carries a glock with NO bullet in chamber. I can pull my gun from the holster and have one cambered in a flash!

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Bill

Ctrl-Alt-Del - works for me!

remy1492

I carry in condition 3. I , like bill, have a mag but NO round chambered. I have seen to many accidental discharges. Sure, it'd take an extra second to chamber it, I will risk that. In fact even in combat I NEVER chamber a round in my pistol though the regs say I should. It's a paranoia I have. Most guys go to a clearing barrel to get a round out AFTERWARDS, I go do get it out before going anywhere.

I carry whenever I am out of the house, the gym being the only place I don't. I really never feel the need to use it, but the day I forget it at home is the day that shady guy in a ski mask walks into the bank while I am cashing my publishers clearing house check.

I carry a PPS currently, its SLIM and works well in cargo shorts, pants, 5.11 pants and jeans. Though it isn't extremely light. I also have a Glock26 with night sights that I use for night stuff but its a bit thicker so it usually stays home.

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

Ditto on the 92FS, the safety is great for one handed battle situations. But its a hell of a large CCW gun and nothing is more frustrating to a half-awake person at 4am than wondering, "now......WHERE does the safety need to be in order to go BANG?"

ChrisJericho

Remy I have been looking at the PPS due to its slimness. I wish my local range had Walthers because I wanted to shoot both the PPK and PPS, but when I asked about why they don't have any to rent the guy at the counter said something like "Walther doesn't warranty their guns for rental use at ranges." I have no idea if that is true or not.

What holster do you use for your PPS?

I dunno, I think I would feel unsafe carrying a pistol with a round in a chamber that lacks a manual safety. I know glocks have the safe-action trigger and internal safeties, but I would prefer having either an external manual safety or having no round in the chamber (of course that contradicts my previous comment of racking the slide requiring two hands, when I would prefer to have 1 hand free to defend myself).

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<ngdawg> any one else equate jericho with a stage extra who just runs across the stage, yells one word and runs off?

woohog1

ON my colt defender 1911, I carry condition one cocked and locked. Magazine in the weapon, one in the chamber, hammer back safety on. Thats the way I was taught, thats the way I train, thats the reason I carry that way. I also carry IWB in a custom made paddle holster. On my smith and wesson 6904, I carry conditon 2, magazine in the weapon, one in the chamber, hammer down, but only because it has a decocker and not a traditional safety.

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raptor9k

The XD and the 1911 ride condition 1. The keltec rides condition 2. I rarely mess with holsters these days. I tend to just tuck them in my waistband at my 7 (left handed) canted forward a fair amount.

Plan9

That's cool until you get have to run or get knocked over. After that? Not so much.

__________________
"The days go on and on... they don't end. All my life needed was a sense of someplace to go. I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention, I believe that one should become a person like other people."

Formerly username "Crompsin."